This is in response to a question by KC, but it may also interest others.
It gives an example of using the Hour Pillar for fine tuning a WWG reading.
I posted this experiment 4 years ago, on Joseph Yu's WWG list.
It was about the Australian Open Tennis 2005 final.
Below are the old postings about my reading, and the outcome.
Danny
-----
Here is the divination for tomorrow's men's final at the Australian
Open tennis, the first grand slam event of the year.
Date of divination 29 Jan
Voids: Tiger and Rabbit
Q: Safin - Hewitt ?
Match will be played 30 Jan 05 at 7:30 pm in Melbourne
Month Branch(MB): Ox (Chou)
Date Branch (DB): Tiger (Yin)
Hour Branch(HB): Dog (Xu) changing to Pig (Hai) at 9:20 pm
Gua Shen: Dog (Xu)
Subject : Marat Safin
Object : Lleyton Hewitt
___ Ch W/W Tiger(3) Void -> Broth. Rooster
_ _ S Offsp. Rat(6)
_ _ Par. Dog (Wg)
_ _ Ch W/W Rabbit(3) Void -> Broth. Monkey
_ _ O O/G Snake(12)
_ _ Par. Goat (Wg)
Background:
This can be a rare match because it is 100 year birthday of the
tournament, and for the first time in 29 years an Australian could win (Hewitt).
It is also the first time the final is being played in the evening and not in the afternoon.
Both players reached the final with a lot of good luck.
In their previous 9 meetings Safin has won 5 times and Hewitt 4 times, with Safin winning their last encounter.
Hewitt is the 3rd in the rankings, Safin is the 4th.
Hewitt has never reached the final on his home turf.
Safin reached the final last year and three years ago, but lost on both occasions.
Hewitt is expected to have strong support from the home crowd
The reading looks quite complicated.
Safin (Subject) is in line 5 , Offspring line, Rat in stage 6
Hewitt (Object) is in line 2, O/G line, Snake in stage 12
So Safin wants to attack (Offspring) and Hewitt counterattack (O/G).
That was to be expected as it is their know styles of play.
Both players are in not very strong stage.
Subject(Safin) controls Object (Hewitt)
Safin can win this final.
The seperating lines give a strong Parents/Dog line on Safin's side.
Dog is also the Gua Shen , so this is very strong.
Parents is strong defense, so this could indicate that Safin defends very well against the counter-attacks of Hewitt (Parents drains Object at O/G)
Hewitt has a moving W/W Rabbit line on his side. It is Void but
because it moves it can be used.
However, since it changes to Brothers / Monkey line, this will become support for the Subject (Safin)
Since the home crowd is expected to play an important role in this match, we can also look at the outside lines, which can easily be seen as representing the spectators around the court.
Behind Safin is a moving W/W Tiger in line6. Tiger drains Subject/Rat, but it also changes to Brothers/ Rooster, which becomes a favorable factor for Subject / Safin
Behind Hewitt is a strong Parents / Goat line , which actually drains
Object (Hewitt).
Perhaps the big expectations on his shoulders will be too much and
become a disadvantage?
The whole reading is Fan Yin of Gua. I have no idea what this will
mean in this case.
I may be biased, but it seems to me there is more that favors Safin to
win.
He has the Gua Shen on his side and very important to defend against the counter attacks of the opponent.
Both moving lines change in favor of Safin. Subject controls Object.
起卦方式：手工指定
公历时间：2005年1月29日21时20分 星期六
农历时间：甲申年十二月二十亥时
干支：甲申年 丁丑月 癸丑日 癸亥时 (旬空：寅卯)
神煞：驿马—亥 桃花—午 日禄—子 贵人—卯，巳
乾宫：山地剥 兑宫：地山谦
六神 伏神 【本 卦】 【变 卦】
白虎 ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财丙寅木 ○→ ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟癸酉金
螣蛇兄弟壬申金▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙丙子水 世safin ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙癸亥水 世
勾陈 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母丙戌土 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母癸丑土
朱雀 ▅▅ ▅▅ 妻财乙卯木 ×→ ▅▅▅▅▅ 兄弟丙申金
青龙 ▅▅ ▅▅ 官鬼乙巳火应Hewitt ▅▅ ▅▅ 官鬼丙午火 应
玄武 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母乙未土 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母丙辰土
Interpretation used
Jan 30 甲寅日(Day)
甲戌時（Time）
乙亥時 （Time）
Let's look how the calendar affects the situation.
Month Branch(MB) Ox combines with Object (Hewitt). The home favorite is in very good
form.
Date Branch(DB) is Tiger , which supports Object (Hewitt) , but also combines with
Safin's seperating line Dog.
Date Stem(DS) is Wood which drains Safin and supports Hewitt. Hewitt is supposed
to have the better start in this match.
The match starts in Dog Hour, which is the Gua Shen. The quality of play should be exceptional.
After 1 hour and 50 minutes of play the Hour changes to Pig.
Pig supports Subject/ Water (Safin) and controls Object/ Fire (Hewitt)
If the match lasts longer than 1h 50 min , then Safin's chances improve
a lot.
So I would expect a close match with Hewitt starting better and Safin edging him in the end, probably after 4 or 5 sets.
Let's see what happens.
--------
--------
This was the result:
Hewitt got a very good start as predicted , he played exceptional and did not make any errors in the first set.
Safin looked thight and did not play his normal powerful game.
Perhaps this was because the strong Dog seperating line on his side excerting too much control over his Rat Subject line.
He was overcontrolled and not free flowing in his play.
Hewitt won the 1st set easily by 6-1
In the second set Hewitt started to make more errors and Safin could take his only chance to win this set by 6-3, although he was still not playing well.
Now it was 1-1 in sets
It became very interesting when the match moved into Pig Hour.
This was a Yin Wood Pig Hour, so as the Hour changes there is again a brief boost of Wood from the Hour Stem(HS).
Indeed, at beginning of the 3rd set Hewitt played well again and moved to a 4-1 lead in the set.
By then we were something like 15 minutes into the Pig Hour, so I expected Safin to improve and perhaps still win this set because the Water from Pig Hour would become very beneficial for him.
And so happened. Suddenly Safin found his best tennis and won 5 games in a row to steal this set by 6-4 and go up 2-1 in sets.
A very dramatic turn around in the match.
It continued in the 4th set with Safin earning a quick 2-0 lead by breaking Hewitt serve immediately.
Safin had now won 7 games in a row, which is pretty rare in men's tennis finals.
Hewitt was not playing bad, but Safin hit winners left and right and
served many aces.
Safin kept up his stellar play and did not give Hewitt even a single chance to take back the lost service game and come back in the match.
Safin won the 4th set by 6-4, and was the winner by 3 sets to 1
Tennis matches often stretch over 3 or 4 hours , so there are usually 2 or even 3 different Hours elements that can come and change the match.
----------
Friday, February 27, 2009
The West also learned about WenWangGua and Yijing, they used to say "don't play play"
A few years ago I gave a course in xiangshu 象數usage of the Yijing, of course we also covered Wenwanggua. Attached you will find examples from Shao Weihua 邵偉華 his book 周易預測例題解, which I used to demonstrate the practice of the system. For those not familiar with the system it can be interesting to see how much it is intertwined with the basics of Four Pillars; for those acquainted with the material it can be interesting to see how an expert applies it.
Harmen
(Blogger:Harmen is a Chinese scholar from Holland. He knows Chinese and he teaches Yijing at the Oriental College in Amsterdam.)
Dear Harmen,
I have just browsed through your site. You have (done) quite some studies in symbols. To be honest, when I first come to realize you are working on Yi-lin. I was a bit surprise. How a foreigner can possibly understand the meanings of all these ancient Chinese words. Now I know you have the right sources, the "Shuo-wen", etc. , I believe you will be doing great. There are a few books regarding the original meanings of Chinese characters. "Shuo-wen" is definitely one of them, we have also 六書故 "Liu-shu-gu", 爾雅 "Er-ya", 康熙字典 Emperor Kang-xi Dictionary, etc. In fact, I use them very often in order to make sure I understand the real meanings before I do my interpretation. There is one book which you might find it absolutely inspiring. It is 三易通義 "San-Yi Tong-yi" by 朱興國and is published 齊魯書社 in China. The ISBN is 7-5333-1711-4. It will just simply blow your head away. Enjoy and keep up the hard work.
Regards,
Jack
(Blogger: Jack is from Hong Kong, a yijing feng shui writer and teacher)
Dear Jack,
I have 三易通義, in fact I mention it in my latest blog entry. It is a very interesting book, it is the first one that not only combines the 周易, the 連山 and the 歸藏, but also tries to give meaning to the text. The author knows his sources.
For a study of the variant texts of the Yijing I would recommend 楚竹書《周易》研究 by 濮茅左 (ISBN 7532541886), an invaluable work which Zhu Xingguo also used, it gives all the info you need (for a summary of its context look here).
Although the Shuowen is a very valuable source you have to treat it with caution. As is said in Wikipedia:
"Although the Shuowen Jiezi has incalculable value to scholars and was traditionally used as the most important Chinese etymological dictionary, since many of its analyses and definitions are unclear or incorrect, it cannot be relied upon as a single, authoritative source for definitions and graphic etymologies. Furthermore, Xu Shen lacked access to oracle bone script from the Shāng Dynasty and bronzeware script from the Shang and Western Zhou Dynasty to which scholars now have access, and these are often critical for understanding the structures and origins of logographs. For instance, he put lǜ (慮 "be concerned; consider") under the section heading 思 (sī "think") and noted it had a phonetic of hǔ (虍 "tiger"). However, the early bronze graphs for lǜ (慮) have the xīn (心 "heart") semantic component and a lǚ (呂 "a musical pitch") phonetic, also seen in early forms of lǔ (盧 "vessel; hut") and lǔ (虜 "captive").
It is best to use the Shuowen with the commentary by Duan Yucai 段玉裁, he knows to enlight many entries in it.
My main source for the meanings of characters is the 漢語大字典, it not only gives the entries from the Shuowen, the Erya and the Kang Xi dictionary, but it also gives examples of a character in complete sentences from ancient sources.
My main sources for the study of Chinese characters are given here, although some other invaluable works like the 戰國古文字典 and 殷墟甲骨學-帶你走進甲骨文的世界 by Ma Rusen 馬如森 which I acquired after I posted that message should also be mentioned.
Regards,
Harmen.
Hi Jack,
After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.
The site is open to everyone, and it is really free space.
People can just join and watch, or find some friends in their area. Others contribute smaller or larger pieces on the various topics, or photos, etc...
The level of posts can vary from beginner to very specialized.
There is no limitation.
This is different from mailing list where everything is dumped in your mailbox.
Here people go to read the things posted by those who they are interested in, so everything takes care of itself.
If people want to set up a separate group for some purpose or other, that too is possible. See "Groups" in the left side.
Thanks for you contributions.
Danny
Reply by Danny VdB on April 11, 2008 at 11:19am
Nice article, Harmen.
The "Six Spirits" actually represent the 6 directions in 3D space.
We have the 4 cardinal directions E-S-W-N (with the elements and the 4 seasons related to them)
They are given by White Tiger (W), Black Tortoise(N), Green Dragon (E) and Crimson Bird (S).
It's easy to see that the meanings attributed to these 4 spirits are taken from their direction/element/season.
This leaves the 2 vertical directions up and down.
Qi Lin is the Pole Star (Polaris), which is always visible up in the northern sky .
Flying Snake is the opposite, it is the South Polaris and always under our feet (provided we are in Northern hemisphere).
Both are Earth element, but a different manifestation.
That's why Flying Snake is related to false alarm and strange hidden phenomena.(will never manifest in the sky, will stay under the ground).
Basic emotions attributed to Earth are worry and sympathy.
That's why Qi Lin/Polaris mention worries as a main theme.
In positive meaning it is the balanced center that keeps overview/sympathy with the entire situation.
If it is a strong line it will not worry. If it is weak and attacked, then it worries because balance is too weak or lost already.
▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on April 11, 2008 at 1:21pm
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the additional information! It is always good to have a broader perspective of these terms.
Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 15, 2008 at 9:31am
Nice write-up you have here, particularly the translation. I had had Shao's book long times ago but found it not going anywhere. So I start writing my own. The bible of WenWangGua is 黃金策, and is embedded in 卜筮正宗. Assuming that you know Chinese. It's worth spending time on.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 15, 2008 at 9:37am
The 6 Celestial Figures are not 3D in space. They are just simply stars in the sky, with 4 in 4 directions. The Curved Array is indeed the polar star, right at the center, but the Flying Serpent is not quite exactly at the Center. There is a book of Chinese Ancient Stars Map which might be useful. It is published by the Space Mesuem in Hong Kong.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on July 20, 2008 at 5:37pm
Hi Jack, thank you for your comment. I have the 黃金策, but I find it very hard to read. I don't read Chinese fluently (this is an understatement), and for some reason I find the 黃金策 difficult to understand. The same goes for the complete 卜筮正宗, I have it as an electronic text on my computer for some years, marked as 'important!', but certain parts are incomprehensible to me. But your remark has reminded me of the text, and I'll have another look at it. I need to know as much as possible about the subject for my Yijing cards. So all tips are very much appreciated.
I like Shao's books because they are easy to read, and he gives a lot of examples. On the other hand I also suspect him of simplifying the matter somewhat. WWG isn't always as easy as he makes it appear.
For those who would also like to take a look at the 卜筮正宗: a good version of the text can be found here as a pdf.
Best wishes,
Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 27, 2008 at 11:48am
Dear Harman,
Your comment on 黃金策 is absolutely correct. It is not easy to understand. Unlike the published version, your e-text version doesn't have much interpretation which would only increase its difficulty in understanding. That's why I launched the newly revised interpretaion during the Book Fair this year in Hong Kong. Since the right goes to my publisher, Juxian Guan（聚賢館）, I cannot possibly post the email version except the book cover as per the attached.
Of those 14 volumes （卷）in 卜筮正宗, the contents of 黃金策 are found on Volume 4 through 12. Assuming its first publication in Early Ming Dynasty, there is evolution since then. The evolution is not really something completely new, but endorsement and minor enhancement through real practices. There are also lots of ancient Chinese stories which even Chinese could even possibly know, not to mention to understand.
I would say Shao learnt in a hard way, and is somehow mixing the interpretation of WWG with other divination related to hexagrams. WWG is only one of the interpretation of divination using Yi-jing. There are a few others. The key to WWG is to find out which line （爻）is the "Vulnerable" and hence the Friendly, the Foe and the Unfriendly, and where the focus of the hexagram is. From then, it would just like reading a real life story.
For WWG lover, you may want to take a quiz on the following real case:
Small claims of Injury (a court case)
Date of Divination: October 3, 2007
or year 丁亥, month 己酉, day 庚午
The hexagrams: Lv of Heng 恆之履
The quiz:
1. what is this claims all about?
2. when did the accident happens?
3. at what stage in the legal process when divination?
4. what would possibly be the final outcome?
Attachments:
• 黃金策cover.jpg, 538 KB
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on July 27, 2008 at 2:30pm
Hi Jack,
Thank you for your comments. I have found your book on the site of your publisher, and when I have repleted my credit card I will order it.
About the case: I have not done this before and I am a real beginner so I am bound to make mistakes in this. But let's err and learn.
1. The claim is about an accident, this is something you gave away at point 2. I would say a car accident, considering the trigrams of hexagram 32 which both have to do with transport and automobiles. The upper trigram Zhen could resemble a crash.
2. I think month 申. I use the following - probably strange - reasoning: The month in which the divination is done is 己酉. 酉 is Yin Metal, and the 5th line of hexagram 32 is a Yin Metal line. This line belongs to month 申, so I assume the accident happened in month 申.
3. I find this difficult to answer as I know nothing about legal processes, so I find it hard to pinpoint a stage. I am inclined to say that the other party is trying to work out an agreement, because the 應 line generates the 世 line.
4. To me it doesn't look too good. What strikes me is that, looking at the trigrams, we have a Wood-Wood hexagram, which turns into a Metal-Metal hexagram. Metal destroys Wood.
Hexagram 32 belongs to Wood, and hexagram 10 belongs to Earth. Earth destroys Wood. The complete 之卦 destroys the 本卦, and that appears as a bad omen to me.
On the other hand, the 世 line turns from Metal into Earth, and since Earth generates Metal, this might be a good sign. The 應 line stays Earth, so there is no gain for the other party.
Do you give courses, Jack? I would very much like to follow a course in WWG.
Best wishes,
Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 3:08pm
Dear Harmen,
Nice try, but I am not sure if I want to give out the outcome so early as I am still expecting more responses from WWG lovers.
Most Chinese people on one hand are being humble, but on the other hand are afraid to show mistake. You have proven yourself that you could be doing great in WWG by going over this hurdle. Having knowledge in Yi-jing gives you the advantage, but afraid to show mistake won't let you going anywhere. I am impressive by your knowledge in Yi-jing. Congratulations.
1. You are right. It's about car accident. The upper trigram changes from Zhen to Qian and the lower trigram changes from Xun to Dui, they are all related to Wood and Metal. Though Metal devitalizes Wood and the Changed hexagram Lv represents the end of the event while the Original hexagram Heng represents the start of the event, it didn't tell us what kind of accident it was. We have to look at it from the metaphor perspective. In Heng, Zhen stands for motion and Xun stands for Insert. In Lv, Qian stands for head, Li stands fo vehicle and Dui stands for destroy or damage. By putting all these together, it is a clear indication that it is highly likely a car accident.
2. You are right that the time of Accident is related to 申 as the 5th line is an Active Officer, but not in the month of 申 of the same year. The 5th is in the upper trigram which usually means years in terms of timing. In fact, the car accident was happened during the month of 子 in the year of 甲申 or 2004. However, what is the significant meaning of 申 turned into 申 in the 5th?
3. By examining the Officer, there are multiple Officers. We have Green Dragon-Officer in the 3rd and Curved Array- Officer in the 5th. Both of which could possibly represents the injury part of the body, 5th being the neck and 3rd being the chest or stomach. One thing I forgot to specify that this divination is not a self divination, it's a divination on behalf of a client. If I told you in the first place, you may probably have something a little different. For client, assuming of same generation, the Vulnerable is then the Invisible Sibling 寅 of the 2nd. Both Officers are devitalizing the Sibling, but which one makes more sense as an injury? How does it related to the legal process? Since the Vulnerable is Sibling, not 世, the effect of 應 to 世 becomes less significant. The 應, if it still stands for the event, in fact devitalizes the Sibling.
4. I save the final outcome for the time being and see if there are more responses.
Having said that, is it all? Are we missing any details? For instance, a neck injury could possible be a whiplash (it was indeed), how about all the other Active and Changed? We have quite a busy hexagram here (with so many Active lines). I led the discussion of this divination which presented by a barrister student of mine. He found the outcome absolutely amazing.
Yes, I do give course, both in Juxian Guan classroom and the Chinese Wisdom Management Society. The latter is a group of professional managers who are tryiing to apply Chinese wisdoms in modern management. I also give private lectures as well, but I am not sure how to advise you on your course of mastering WWG. By the way, where is your location?
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Danny VdB on July 28, 2008 at 4:57pm
Send Message
Hi Jack,
There are not so many people in the West who know about WWG.
That's why a Google search for "Wen Wang Gua" yields relatively few results.
My own website comes out 5th place, and this ning network site comes out on 6th place already.
That means there is almost no English language information about it.
Most people who know about it have learned through Joseph Yu's course, which comes 1st on Google search too.
Whether there is more room for books or courses on the subject is difficult to say. I Ching book itself has been well known and popular in the West for decades, and nearly every good bookstore has it on the shelves. But nobody knows WWG.
It has been a part of my software for years, but there is really need for more written materials in English if this method is to gain broader popularity.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 5:29pm
Dear Danny,
I think you are doing great in maintaining this site and I see number of members is growing. I don't normally join any metaphysic website as a member because most of which are too supersitious. Chinese metaphysic is not all about supersitious, it's about law of nature and how to apply in daily life. Harman's message does interest me. I replied to Harmen because I see him going into the myst like I did with Shao.
The Yi-jing you normally find in bookstore is what I called traditional Yi-jing which was interpreted wrongly by Conficius two thousand years ago. There are people today revisiting Yi-jing with reiterated perspective-- the perspective which had been forgotten for millenniums.
It is true that not that many people in the West talks about WWG. It does give me the idea of writing WWG in English in my future projects. I have three books regarding divination using Yi-jing published. The first one is WWG introductory, the second one is the advanced WWG, and the third one in fact is about history of evolution in divination using Yi-jing, not just WWG.
After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.
Perhaps I can share with you my handy tools by using MS Excel. The good thing is it's simple, that bad thing is I still need to fix the calendar.
Anyway, keep up the hard work.
Regards,
Jack
Attachments:
• 易卜.xls, 56 KB
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 6:27pm
Dear harmen,
I learnt from your homepage in Four Pillars that you are currently working on Yi-lin. Amazing. The three books I mentioned earlier are related to Divination using Yi-jing. I was in fact planing to write something about Yi-jing in the Han Dynasty but found it could be quite boring, so I changed it to evolution history but with emphasis on Han Yi. The title of the book is 易卜縱橫 published by Juxian Guan. Hope you find it helpful.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on August 2, 2008 at 9:13pm
Hi Jack,
Thanks for your explanation, this example really helps me to find structure in all the data that you gather with WWG. I find it difficult to prioritize all the rules and to separate the important from the unimportant. I'll study your explanation carefully and if I have questions I know how to find you. I live in Holland, by the way.
Yes, bit by bit I am also trying to translate the Yilin - compared to the Yijing it is easier on certain points, although there are references to historical happenings and figures which are difficult to decipher. But it is a welcome diversion when you are too much obsessed with the text of the Yijing. I like exploring the early meanings of Chinese characters within the context of the Yijing (see my weblog, I just added an entry about hexagram 23), and go as deep as possible with the sources that I have gathered throughout the years. One is as good as one's sources, and with other sources I might come up with different findings, but so far I find the information that one can get from studying the origin of Chinese characters simply amazing.
Can you give me the ISBN's of your books? I love your blog on this site (too bad I can't really read your Chinese blogs, it is just a bit too complicated for me). Keep up the good work!
Best wishes,
Harmen.
Reply by Jack Chiu on August 3, 2008 at 3:03am
Dear Harmen,
Thank you for your reply. I have updated the ISBN in the photo.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on August 3, 2008 at 3:41am
Dear Harmen,
I have just browsed through your site. You have quite some studys in symbols. To be honest, when I first come to realize you are working on Yi-lin. I was a bit surprise. How a foreign can possibly understand the meanings of all these ancient Chinese words. Now I know you have the right sources, the "Shuo-wen", etc. , I believe you will be doing great. There are a few books regarding the original meanings of Chinese characters. "Shuo-wen" is definitely one of them, we have also 六書故 "Liu-shu-gu", 爾雅 "Er-ya", 康熙字典 Emperor Kang-xi Dictionary, etc. In fact, I use them very often in order to make sure I understand the real meanings before I do my interpretation. There is one book which you might find it absolutely inspiring. It is 三易通義 "San-Yi Tong-yi" by 朱興國and is published 齊魯書社 in China. The ISBN is 7-5333-1711-4. It will just simply blow your head away. Enjoy and keep up the hard work.
Regards,
Jack
▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on August 3, 2008 at 9:13am
Dear Jack,
I have 三易通義, in fact I mention it in my latest blog entry. It is a very interesting book, it is the first one that not only combines the 周易, the 連山 and the 歸藏, but also tries to give meaning to the text. The author knows his sources.
For a study of the variant texts of the Yijing I would recommend 楚竹書《周易》研究 by 濮茅左 (ISBN 7532541886), an invaluable work which Zhu Xingguo also used, it gives all the info you need (for a summary of its context look here).
Although the Shuowen is a very valuable source you have to treat it with caution. As is said in Wikipedia:
"Although the Shuowen Jiezi has incalculable value to scholars and was traditionally used as the most important Chinese etymological dictionary, since many of its analyses and definitions are unclear or incorrect, it cannot be relied upon as a single, authoritative source for definitions and graphic etymologies. Furthermore, Xu Shen lacked access to oracle bone script from the Shāng Dynasty and bronzeware script from the Shang and Western Zhou Dynasty to which scholars now have access, and these are often critical for understanding the structures and origins of logographs. For instance, he put lǜ (慮 "be concerned; consider") under the section heading 思 (sī "think") and noted it had a phonetic of hǔ (虍 "tiger"). However, the early bronze graphs for lǜ (慮) have the xīn (心 "heart") semantic component and a lǚ (呂 "a musical pitch") phonetic, also seen in early forms of lǔ (盧 "vessel; hut") and lǔ (虜 "captive").
It is best to use the Shuowen with the commentary by Duan Yucai 段玉裁, he knows to enlight many entries in it.
My main source for the meanings of characters is the 漢語大字典, it not only gives the entries from the Shuowen, the Erya and the Kang Xi dictionary, but it also gives examples of a character in complete sentences from ancient sources.
My main sources for the study of Chinese characters are given here, although some other invaluable works like the 戰國古文字典 and 殷墟甲骨學-帶你走進甲骨文的世界 by Ma Rusen 馬如森 which I acquired after I posted that message should also be mentioned.
Regards,
Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Danny VdB on August 5, 2008 at 6:18pm
Send Message
Hi Jack,
>After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.
The site is open to everyone, and it is really free space.
People can just join and watch, or find some friends in their area. Others contribute smaller or larger pieces on the various topics, or photos, etc...
The level of posts can vary from beginner to very specialized.
There is no limitation.
This is different from mailing list where everything is dumped in your mailbox.
Here people go to read the things posted by those who they are interested in, so everything takes care of itself.
If people want to set up a separate group for some purpose or other, that too is possible. See "Groups" in the left side.
Thanks for you contributions.
Danny
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Permalink Reply by Nathalie Mourier on February 24, 2009 at 12:08pm
Hi Jack and Harmen,
I'm joining in rather late as this post dates back a couple of months already. The case is mind catching, I tried to see what I could possibly find out. I insert my comments within Jack's last post.
"In Lv, Qian stands for head, Li stands fo vehicle and Dui stands for destroy or damage."
Do you infer li from 2nd, 3rd and 4th yaos in resulting hexagram? Wouldn't we then also consider xun trigram formed by 3rd, 4th and 5th yaos in resulting hexagram?
"By putting all these together, it is a clear indication that it is highly likely a car accident.
Then also maybe that there is head injury (qian).
"2. You are right that the time of Accident is related to 申 as the 5th line is an Active Officer, "
There are 2 active officers: 3rd and 5th yao. Why do we consider 5th yao rather than 3rd? Could shen and you officers show both drivers? Your client then being 3rd yao because it bears the subject attribute.
"However, what is the significant meaning of 申 turned into 申 in the 5th?"
Actually, all 3 yaos in top trigram don't change branches in resulting hexagram. Wu, shen and xu remain wu, shen and xu in resulting hexagram. This is fu yin. What could this mean? Since it's outer trigram there is worries and sadness caused to the client by something outside him: the court decision, the other party's behaviour or actions, ... Is it too far fetched to think that the client suffers head injury (top trigram, qian trigram, 5th yao moving)?
In resulting hexagram, 申 bounds to si, offspring being strong in wu day this is not auspicious to shen: in due time (when si appears) the client might get proper cure, feel better.
"3. (...) For client, assuming of same generation, the Vulnerable is then the Invisible Sibling 寅 of the 2nd. Both Officers are devitalizing the Sibling, but which one makes more sense as an injury?"
OG shen is more likely to mean an injury because it clashes yin?
OG wu moving could be chest injury like broken ribs.
"How does it related to the legal process? Since the Vulnerable is Sibling, not 世, the effect of 應 to 世 becomes less significant. The 應, if it still stands for the event, in fact devitalizes the Sibling."
應 in resulting hexagram being void, its effect may be very light if not inexistant? It combines with mao yao in second hexagram, xu being void by then client may expect no money to be handed to him.
Parents yao hai being void in 1st hexagram, does it mean the client was not properly insured.
Shame I cannot read the post you put in your blog...
Nathalie
(Blogger:Nathalie is from France. She is also well-verse in Yijing.)
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on February 24, 2009 at 6:46pm
Dear Nathalie,
Acknowledge with thanks to your email. I normally response faster in gmail because I check gmail everyday.
Thank you for your sharing. You have quite some good observations. On one hand we have to believe we can really seize the revelation that the divine power would have to indicate through casting, but on the other hand for a good deciphering, it is up to ability of the one who do the reading. It includes the understanding of rules of deciphering, ability of logical deduction, and most of all the acquired knowledge either through self experience or learning.
1. Yes, Qian, Li, and Dui are from the Changed Hexagram (the resulting hexagram as you said) Lv, in which I was using the metaphors of trigrams. Xun is another trigram which we can find within the Changed Hexagram. It is up to us to determine if it would make sense in the deciphering. If we were wrong, so does the deciphering.
Xun means to insert, like air/wind in every space. Xun also meant thigh. Li is considered as Fire, and having circular shape, hence it is being referred as carriage in "Yi-jing". Qian is having the wu-xing property of Metal, Li is being the carriage and Dui means to destroy, with the combination of devitalization of Wood by Metal (also means to destory and or to break), it was just a logical deduction for the conclusion of car accident. Here, the metaphor or meaning of Xun did not contribute to the overall picture.
2. Both the Third and the Fifth Lines can represent the accident as they are in terms of the Six Relatives the Officers. However, Officer also represents law enforcement in a lawsuit case, for instance, the judge. The Celestial Figure of the Third Line is the Green (Azure) Dragon which means justice. Combining with Officer, it refers to good judge who always maintain justice. While the Celestial Figure of the Fifth Line is the Curved Array which means entanglement. This is again a logical deduction to use the Fifth Line as the accident.
3. The Subject Line (or the subject attribute as you called) is usually used to represent the one who make the inquiry. The Object Line is then usually referred to the other party or the event. However, this is not the case here. Since the barrister was inquiring as a friend of his client, then the Line represents his friend is the Sibling. This is quite tricky in fact. If he asked as lawyer to client, then Sibling can be used. It was lucky that the barrister did not reveal his status and just said asking for his friend, otherwise, I might have been led to other direction which resulted in false reading.
4. Yes, Shen changed into Shen is Fu Yin. You ask the right question, what could it possibly mean? Fu Yin means change but no change. Unlike the Inactive Line, it is a Active Line, but changed into itself which virtually showed no change. It possibly means trying to make change but without making any progress. This is what you can find in most WWG textbook. However, Fu Yin could also possibly mean repeat occurrence. How about not one but two car accidents?
5. The beauty of WWG is that there are multiple indications even from just one single Active Line. Shen changed into Shen means repeat occurrence, but in terms of injury, we look at the metaphor, the position of the Line, etc. to determine what kind or which part of the body got injured. The interesting thing here is not just two car accident events one after the other, or the whiplash (again logical deduction for common car accident claims), it was something else.
6. In the Changed Hexagram, the Si and the Shen will not have any effect. Take this as one of the deciphering rules. Our job is to make a complicated hexagram simple, so focus only in where the importance is. When we become skillful, we can read like a story book from the hexagram.
7. Yes, Yin and Shen are being the opposite and that the You is the judge. Wu of the Original Hexagram is an Inactive Line. Though there is condition that an Inactive Line can become Aggressive Inactive, this is not the case. Even if it does, will it devitalizes Yin?
8. If the Second Line of Heng is Inactive, howcould Mao possibly be there? Yes, the outcome is they lost the case cause there were car accidents. The second car accident was self settled. The client did not reveal the second one to his barrister, but the other party found out. They run out of excuse for the whiplash. It is also shown in the hexagram. Can we tell how do we know if the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client?
9. Yes, a Neutralized (or void as you said) Parent means invalid (untimely) document which could possibly mean unproperly insured. Untimely because it is neutralized.
My Engish book of WWG is about 90% finished. Trying very hard to look for effective way to publish.
Regards,
Jack
P.S. With no offending, I am kind of feeling weird to talk to a picture of shade, but will respect if you choose not to post any picture.
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Permalink Reply by Nathalie Mourier 21 hours ago
Dear Jack,
Thank you for taking the time to comment in detail. There is not much opportunity to learn WWBG from someone with experience, your post is all the most welcome for this. On one hand there are many rules, it can become difficult to prioritize and gain skill in knowing what’s adequate to consider and what should be disregarded.
From your post it also appears there is a lot of dynamics in the way a hexagram could be considered: trigrams can be checked against one another as you explain in detail for zhen, qian, xun, li and dui. I can see the richness of the approach. Knowing when to do so and where to stop in the analytical process to keep the juice of the conclusions without falling into a dry mechanical view often is somewhat of a challenge. I suppose being regularly exposed to readings would help to get a grip of it. Shame HK is just so far away from my daily location! Can you see any alternative ways we could devise to get this exposure to practice?
Xun means to insert, like air/wind in every space. Xun also meant thigh. Li is considered as Fire, and having circular shape, hence it is being referred as carriage in "Yi-jing". Qian is having the wu-xing property of Metal, Li is being the carriage and Dui means to destroy (…)
There are various lists available that give the guas’ attributes in English with some variations in them that puzzle me sometimes. I never really paid attention to the fact that Li is related to circular shape, empty inside and closed all around (source: Da liu). I can see now how this information can be applied. I can also understand why you link it to a car (empty inside, closed all around). Notes I had so far would link qian to car (source: Chu) or kun for its potential protective action. To a beginner's mind, that’s puzzling. Maybe my notes have mistakes. Could we imagine that in a similar situation zhen trigram could represent a car with open or no rooftop?
Both the Third and the Fifth Lines can represent the accident (…) This is again a logical deduction to use the Fifth Line as the accident.
That’s a truly beautiful demonstration.
When first reading the hexagram I wondered how “mutilayered” a reading could be without losing common sense and logic. What I mean is this:
* If we focus on the situation that caused the legal situation to occur and try to understand what happened, could two officer lines show there were two accidents? Because one officer is located in the bottom trigram, could we infer that it happened at the home or close to the home of the car owner or that he caused it?
* If we focus on the consequences of the accident, could the officer lines indicate what injuries were inflicted to the people in the car?
I suppose we could focus on other factors too but that’s a lot of layers to handle and maybe this is not appropriate?
Shen changed into Shen means repeat occurrence, but in terms of injury, we look at the metaphor, the position of the Line, etc. to determine what kind or which part of the body got injured. The interesting thing here is not just two car accident events one after the other, or the whiplash (again logical deduction for common car accident claims), it was something else.
Arghhh what can it mean? The car owner had a car accident with someone he knew of someone from same family?
In the Changed Hexagram, the Si and the Shen will not have any effect. Take this as one of the deciphering rules. Our job is to make a complicated hexagram simple, so focus only in where the importance is. When we become skillful, we can read like a story book from the hexagram.
Ok. So the rule is there is no binding in the changed hexagram between yaos that resulted from the change, is this correct?
Yes, Yin and Shen are being the opposite and that the You is the judge. Wu of the Original Hexagram is an Inactive Line. Though there is condition that an Inactive Line can become Aggressive Inactive, this is not the case. Even if it does, will it devitalizes Yin?
I would have thought wu line to be strong because divination done on wu day. From your wording I would suppose the correct answer is “no” but I cannot find out why if I use whatever comprehension I have that could be summarized as following:
•wu is strong on day wu and in the same time yin is weak in day wu, that doesn’t seem too auspicious for yin yao
•the fire combination is present as we have yin-wu-xu branches in the yaos (xu being void though)
•yin represent the client and is part of the fire combination. Do you mean because he’s related to wu in the yin-wu-xu combination then wu doesn’t hurt him? Or maybe it gives away one more information: the client didn’t act in a responsible manner? If such is the case wu doesn’t devitalize the client, but show that the latter one shoots himself in the foot, so to speak.
You obviously have a different view on this but figure out what.
If the Second Line of Heng is Inactive, howcould Mao possibly be there?
In changed hexagram we only chek yaos that have changed, is this correct? Hence we don’t look at mao in changed hexagram because it’s not linked to a changing yao in first hexagram?
The client did not reveal the second one to his barrister, but the other party found out. They run out of excuse for the whiplash. It is also shown in the hexagram. Can we tell how do we know if the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client?
Assuming officer you yao is the 1st accident, assuming officer shen yao is the second accident that has to be found in the yin-shen relation? Yin-shen says it’s penalty, legal procedure started out of one’s own good rights, ungratefulness. Or maybe yin yao that represent the client bearing the tortoise attribute shows he’s hiding something, but the place of hiding is pretty slim (it’s void/neutralized) hence it will be exposed to the public attention??
My Engish book of WWG is about 90% finished. Trying very hard to look for effective way to publish.
I’ll send a private email on his.
Thank you very much for your good efforts and time.
P.S. With no offending, I am kind of feeling weird to talk to a picture of shade, but will respect if you choose not to post any picture.
No offence! It’s only at the time I thought bikini pictures wouldn’t just make it ;-) I’ll go and search my computer for something more suitable and will lighten up the shade. Cheers.
Nathalie
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu 19 hours ago
Dear Nathalie,
A nice picture you got there. Thank you. Now I know I am talking to a real person.
You got them right in most of the assumptions. Yes, there are quite some rules which require time to digest. You are right, more practice will sharpen the deciphering skills and be able to help you home in to those really mattered.
The very basic rules is:
《周易．繫辭》：「吉凶悔吝者，生乎動者也。」
Literally it means, "Be it Auspicious, Inauspicious, Repentance, or Regret, it is all provoked by Movement." (from "Xi-ci of Zhou-yi").
Without movement, there can hardly be any indication. No matter how strong they are, like Wu the Child in the case, it is only strong, but it is not Active. As such, the Trine of Fire cannot be formed (aparted from Xu being neutralized). What happen if Xu is deneutralized, and Wu is beinig the Opposite by the Day of Zi?
Also, the Changed Hexagram is the result of the change. They are not part of the Original Hexagram. The Changed Line will have effects on the Lines within the Original Hexagram, but not among themselves.
Keep it up and certainly you will get better. More time on the metaphors of trigrams will be a big plus.
Regards,
Jack
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At 11:02am on February 25, 2009, KC Goh(吳繼宗) said…
Jack, Your WWG quiz is not easy. When I read thru Harmen and Nathalie have to say, I realize they have made progress in yijing divination. You have done a good job and hope you complete your answer and go to second quiz. How do you know the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client? I am always wondering why they only considered Year, Month, and day of divination. The time of divination was not considered. why?
西元2007年10月3日 15時48分3.0秒
納甲系統：京房易之納甲法，伏神系統：王洪緒之《卜筮正宗》
時日月年 空 驛 桃 貴 羊
亡 馬 花 人 刃
甲庚己丁 戌 申 卯 丑 酉
申午酉亥 亥 未
震木三世卦：雷風恆 艮土五世卦：天澤履
【六獸】【伏 神】 【 本 卦 】 【 變 卦 】
螣蛇 應妻財─ ─庚戌土 ╳──→壬戌土 妻財─── 兄弟
勾陳 官鬼─ ─庚申金 ╳──→壬申金 官鬼───世子孫
朱雀 子孫───庚午火 壬午火 子孫─── 父母
青龍 世官鬼───辛酉金 ○──→丁丑土 妻財─ ─ 兄弟
玄武兄庚寅木 父母───辛亥水 丁卯木 兄弟───應官鬼
白虎 妻財─ ─辛丑土 ╳──→丁巳火 子孫─── 父母
I put up the WWG just for reference.
KC
Harmen
(Blogger:Harmen is a Chinese scholar from Holland. He knows Chinese and he teaches Yijing at the Oriental College in Amsterdam.)
Dear Harmen,
I have just browsed through your site. You have (done) quite some studies in symbols. To be honest, when I first come to realize you are working on Yi-lin. I was a bit surprise. How a foreigner can possibly understand the meanings of all these ancient Chinese words. Now I know you have the right sources, the "Shuo-wen", etc. , I believe you will be doing great. There are a few books regarding the original meanings of Chinese characters. "Shuo-wen" is definitely one of them, we have also 六書故 "Liu-shu-gu", 爾雅 "Er-ya", 康熙字典 Emperor Kang-xi Dictionary, etc. In fact, I use them very often in order to make sure I understand the real meanings before I do my interpretation. There is one book which you might find it absolutely inspiring. It is 三易通義 "San-Yi Tong-yi" by 朱興國and is published 齊魯書社 in China. The ISBN is 7-5333-1711-4. It will just simply blow your head away. Enjoy and keep up the hard work.
Regards,
Jack
(Blogger: Jack is from Hong Kong, a yijing feng shui writer and teacher)
Dear Jack,
I have 三易通義, in fact I mention it in my latest blog entry. It is a very interesting book, it is the first one that not only combines the 周易, the 連山 and the 歸藏, but also tries to give meaning to the text. The author knows his sources.
For a study of the variant texts of the Yijing I would recommend 楚竹書《周易》研究 by 濮茅左 (ISBN 7532541886), an invaluable work which Zhu Xingguo also used, it gives all the info you need (for a summary of its context look here).
Although the Shuowen is a very valuable source you have to treat it with caution. As is said in Wikipedia:
"Although the Shuowen Jiezi has incalculable value to scholars and was traditionally used as the most important Chinese etymological dictionary, since many of its analyses and definitions are unclear or incorrect, it cannot be relied upon as a single, authoritative source for definitions and graphic etymologies. Furthermore, Xu Shen lacked access to oracle bone script from the Shāng Dynasty and bronzeware script from the Shang and Western Zhou Dynasty to which scholars now have access, and these are often critical for understanding the structures and origins of logographs. For instance, he put lǜ (慮 "be concerned; consider") under the section heading 思 (sī "think") and noted it had a phonetic of hǔ (虍 "tiger"). However, the early bronze graphs for lǜ (慮) have the xīn (心 "heart") semantic component and a lǚ (呂 "a musical pitch") phonetic, also seen in early forms of lǔ (盧 "vessel; hut") and lǔ (虜 "captive").
It is best to use the Shuowen with the commentary by Duan Yucai 段玉裁, he knows to enlight many entries in it.
My main source for the meanings of characters is the 漢語大字典, it not only gives the entries from the Shuowen, the Erya and the Kang Xi dictionary, but it also gives examples of a character in complete sentences from ancient sources.
My main sources for the study of Chinese characters are given here, although some other invaluable works like the 戰國古文字典 and 殷墟甲骨學-帶你走進甲骨文的世界 by Ma Rusen 馬如森 which I acquired after I posted that message should also be mentioned.
Regards,
Harmen.
Hi Jack,
After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.
The site is open to everyone, and it is really free space.
People can just join and watch, or find some friends in their area. Others contribute smaller or larger pieces on the various topics, or photos, etc...
The level of posts can vary from beginner to very specialized.
There is no limitation.
This is different from mailing list where everything is dumped in your mailbox.
Here people go to read the things posted by those who they are interested in, so everything takes care of itself.
If people want to set up a separate group for some purpose or other, that too is possible. See "Groups" in the left side.
Thanks for you contributions.
Danny
Reply by Danny VdB on April 11, 2008 at 11:19am
Nice article, Harmen.
The "Six Spirits" actually represent the 6 directions in 3D space.
We have the 4 cardinal directions E-S-W-N (with the elements and the 4 seasons related to them)
They are given by White Tiger (W), Black Tortoise(N), Green Dragon (E) and Crimson Bird (S).
It's easy to see that the meanings attributed to these 4 spirits are taken from their direction/element/season.
This leaves the 2 vertical directions up and down.
Qi Lin is the Pole Star (Polaris), which is always visible up in the northern sky .
Flying Snake is the opposite, it is the South Polaris and always under our feet (provided we are in Northern hemisphere).
Both are Earth element, but a different manifestation.
That's why Flying Snake is related to false alarm and strange hidden phenomena.(will never manifest in the sky, will stay under the ground).
Basic emotions attributed to Earth are worry and sympathy.
That's why Qi Lin/Polaris mention worries as a main theme.
In positive meaning it is the balanced center that keeps overview/sympathy with the entire situation.
If it is a strong line it will not worry. If it is weak and attacked, then it worries because balance is too weak or lost already.
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on April 11, 2008 at 1:21pm
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the additional information! It is always good to have a broader perspective of these terms.
Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 15, 2008 at 9:31am
Nice write-up you have here, particularly the translation. I had had Shao's book long times ago but found it not going anywhere. So I start writing my own. The bible of WenWangGua is 黃金策, and is embedded in 卜筮正宗. Assuming that you know Chinese. It's worth spending time on.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 15, 2008 at 9:37am
The 6 Celestial Figures are not 3D in space. They are just simply stars in the sky, with 4 in 4 directions. The Curved Array is indeed the polar star, right at the center, but the Flying Serpent is not quite exactly at the Center. There is a book of Chinese Ancient Stars Map which might be useful. It is published by the Space Mesuem in Hong Kong.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on July 20, 2008 at 5:37pm
Hi Jack, thank you for your comment. I have the 黃金策, but I find it very hard to read. I don't read Chinese fluently (this is an understatement), and for some reason I find the 黃金策 difficult to understand. The same goes for the complete 卜筮正宗, I have it as an electronic text on my computer for some years, marked as 'important!', but certain parts are incomprehensible to me. But your remark has reminded me of the text, and I'll have another look at it. I need to know as much as possible about the subject for my Yijing cards. So all tips are very much appreciated.
I like Shao's books because they are easy to read, and he gives a lot of examples. On the other hand I also suspect him of simplifying the matter somewhat. WWG isn't always as easy as he makes it appear.
For those who would also like to take a look at the 卜筮正宗: a good version of the text can be found here as a pdf.
Best wishes,
Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 27, 2008 at 11:48am
Dear Harman,
Your comment on 黃金策 is absolutely correct. It is not easy to understand. Unlike the published version, your e-text version doesn't have much interpretation which would only increase its difficulty in understanding. That's why I launched the newly revised interpretaion during the Book Fair this year in Hong Kong. Since the right goes to my publisher, Juxian Guan（聚賢館）, I cannot possibly post the email version except the book cover as per the attached.
Of those 14 volumes （卷）in 卜筮正宗, the contents of 黃金策 are found on Volume 4 through 12. Assuming its first publication in Early Ming Dynasty, there is evolution since then. The evolution is not really something completely new, but endorsement and minor enhancement through real practices. There are also lots of ancient Chinese stories which even Chinese could even possibly know, not to mention to understand.
I would say Shao learnt in a hard way, and is somehow mixing the interpretation of WWG with other divination related to hexagrams. WWG is only one of the interpretation of divination using Yi-jing. There are a few others. The key to WWG is to find out which line （爻）is the "Vulnerable" and hence the Friendly, the Foe and the Unfriendly, and where the focus of the hexagram is. From then, it would just like reading a real life story.
For WWG lover, you may want to take a quiz on the following real case:
Small claims of Injury (a court case)
Date of Divination: October 3, 2007
or year 丁亥, month 己酉, day 庚午
The hexagrams: Lv of Heng 恆之履
The quiz:
1. what is this claims all about?
2. when did the accident happens?
3. at what stage in the legal process when divination?
4. what would possibly be the final outcome?
Attachments:
• 黃金策cover.jpg, 538 KB
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on July 27, 2008 at 2:30pm
Hi Jack,
Thank you for your comments. I have found your book on the site of your publisher, and when I have repleted my credit card I will order it.
About the case: I have not done this before and I am a real beginner so I am bound to make mistakes in this. But let's err and learn.
1. The claim is about an accident, this is something you gave away at point 2. I would say a car accident, considering the trigrams of hexagram 32 which both have to do with transport and automobiles. The upper trigram Zhen could resemble a crash.
2. I think month 申. I use the following - probably strange - reasoning: The month in which the divination is done is 己酉. 酉 is Yin Metal, and the 5th line of hexagram 32 is a Yin Metal line. This line belongs to month 申, so I assume the accident happened in month 申.
3. I find this difficult to answer as I know nothing about legal processes, so I find it hard to pinpoint a stage. I am inclined to say that the other party is trying to work out an agreement, because the 應 line generates the 世 line.
4. To me it doesn't look too good. What strikes me is that, looking at the trigrams, we have a Wood-Wood hexagram, which turns into a Metal-Metal hexagram. Metal destroys Wood.
Hexagram 32 belongs to Wood, and hexagram 10 belongs to Earth. Earth destroys Wood. The complete 之卦 destroys the 本卦, and that appears as a bad omen to me.
On the other hand, the 世 line turns from Metal into Earth, and since Earth generates Metal, this might be a good sign. The 應 line stays Earth, so there is no gain for the other party.
Do you give courses, Jack? I would very much like to follow a course in WWG.
Best wishes,
Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 3:08pm
Dear Harmen,
Nice try, but I am not sure if I want to give out the outcome so early as I am still expecting more responses from WWG lovers.
Most Chinese people on one hand are being humble, but on the other hand are afraid to show mistake. You have proven yourself that you could be doing great in WWG by going over this hurdle. Having knowledge in Yi-jing gives you the advantage, but afraid to show mistake won't let you going anywhere. I am impressive by your knowledge in Yi-jing. Congratulations.
1. You are right. It's about car accident. The upper trigram changes from Zhen to Qian and the lower trigram changes from Xun to Dui, they are all related to Wood and Metal. Though Metal devitalizes Wood and the Changed hexagram Lv represents the end of the event while the Original hexagram Heng represents the start of the event, it didn't tell us what kind of accident it was. We have to look at it from the metaphor perspective. In Heng, Zhen stands for motion and Xun stands for Insert. In Lv, Qian stands for head, Li stands fo vehicle and Dui stands for destroy or damage. By putting all these together, it is a clear indication that it is highly likely a car accident.
2. You are right that the time of Accident is related to 申 as the 5th line is an Active Officer, but not in the month of 申 of the same year. The 5th is in the upper trigram which usually means years in terms of timing. In fact, the car accident was happened during the month of 子 in the year of 甲申 or 2004. However, what is the significant meaning of 申 turned into 申 in the 5th?
3. By examining the Officer, there are multiple Officers. We have Green Dragon-Officer in the 3rd and Curved Array- Officer in the 5th. Both of which could possibly represents the injury part of the body, 5th being the neck and 3rd being the chest or stomach. One thing I forgot to specify that this divination is not a self divination, it's a divination on behalf of a client. If I told you in the first place, you may probably have something a little different. For client, assuming of same generation, the Vulnerable is then the Invisible Sibling 寅 of the 2nd. Both Officers are devitalizing the Sibling, but which one makes more sense as an injury? How does it related to the legal process? Since the Vulnerable is Sibling, not 世, the effect of 應 to 世 becomes less significant. The 應, if it still stands for the event, in fact devitalizes the Sibling.
4. I save the final outcome for the time being and see if there are more responses.
Having said that, is it all? Are we missing any details? For instance, a neck injury could possible be a whiplash (it was indeed), how about all the other Active and Changed? We have quite a busy hexagram here (with so many Active lines). I led the discussion of this divination which presented by a barrister student of mine. He found the outcome absolutely amazing.
Yes, I do give course, both in Juxian Guan classroom and the Chinese Wisdom Management Society. The latter is a group of professional managers who are tryiing to apply Chinese wisdoms in modern management. I also give private lectures as well, but I am not sure how to advise you on your course of mastering WWG. By the way, where is your location?
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Danny VdB on July 28, 2008 at 4:57pm
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Hi Jack,
There are not so many people in the West who know about WWG.
That's why a Google search for "Wen Wang Gua" yields relatively few results.
My own website comes out 5th place, and this ning network site comes out on 6th place already.
That means there is almost no English language information about it.
Most people who know about it have learned through Joseph Yu's course, which comes 1st on Google search too.
Whether there is more room for books or courses on the subject is difficult to say. I Ching book itself has been well known and popular in the West for decades, and nearly every good bookstore has it on the shelves. But nobody knows WWG.
It has been a part of my software for years, but there is really need for more written materials in English if this method is to gain broader popularity.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 5:29pm
Dear Danny,
I think you are doing great in maintaining this site and I see number of members is growing. I don't normally join any metaphysic website as a member because most of which are too supersitious. Chinese metaphysic is not all about supersitious, it's about law of nature and how to apply in daily life. Harman's message does interest me. I replied to Harmen because I see him going into the myst like I did with Shao.
The Yi-jing you normally find in bookstore is what I called traditional Yi-jing which was interpreted wrongly by Conficius two thousand years ago. There are people today revisiting Yi-jing with reiterated perspective-- the perspective which had been forgotten for millenniums.
It is true that not that many people in the West talks about WWG. It does give me the idea of writing WWG in English in my future projects. I have three books regarding divination using Yi-jing published. The first one is WWG introductory, the second one is the advanced WWG, and the third one in fact is about history of evolution in divination using Yi-jing, not just WWG.
After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.
Perhaps I can share with you my handy tools by using MS Excel. The good thing is it's simple, that bad thing is I still need to fix the calendar.
Anyway, keep up the hard work.
Regards,
Jack
Attachments:
• 易卜.xls, 56 KB
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 6:27pm
Dear harmen,
I learnt from your homepage in Four Pillars that you are currently working on Yi-lin. Amazing. The three books I mentioned earlier are related to Divination using Yi-jing. I was in fact planing to write something about Yi-jing in the Han Dynasty but found it could be quite boring, so I changed it to evolution history but with emphasis on Han Yi. The title of the book is 易卜縱橫 published by Juxian Guan. Hope you find it helpful.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on August 2, 2008 at 9:13pm
Hi Jack,
Thanks for your explanation, this example really helps me to find structure in all the data that you gather with WWG. I find it difficult to prioritize all the rules and to separate the important from the unimportant. I'll study your explanation carefully and if I have questions I know how to find you. I live in Holland, by the way.
Yes, bit by bit I am also trying to translate the Yilin - compared to the Yijing it is easier on certain points, although there are references to historical happenings and figures which are difficult to decipher. But it is a welcome diversion when you are too much obsessed with the text of the Yijing. I like exploring the early meanings of Chinese characters within the context of the Yijing (see my weblog, I just added an entry about hexagram 23), and go as deep as possible with the sources that I have gathered throughout the years. One is as good as one's sources, and with other sources I might come up with different findings, but so far I find the information that one can get from studying the origin of Chinese characters simply amazing.
Can you give me the ISBN's of your books? I love your blog on this site (too bad I can't really read your Chinese blogs, it is just a bit too complicated for me). Keep up the good work!
Best wishes,
Harmen.
Reply by Jack Chiu on August 3, 2008 at 3:03am
Dear Harmen,
Thank you for your reply. I have updated the ISBN in the photo.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on August 3, 2008 at 3:41am
Dear Harmen,
I have just browsed through your site. You have quite some studys in symbols. To be honest, when I first come to realize you are working on Yi-lin. I was a bit surprise. How a foreign can possibly understand the meanings of all these ancient Chinese words. Now I know you have the right sources, the "Shuo-wen", etc. , I believe you will be doing great. There are a few books regarding the original meanings of Chinese characters. "Shuo-wen" is definitely one of them, we have also 六書故 "Liu-shu-gu", 爾雅 "Er-ya", 康熙字典 Emperor Kang-xi Dictionary, etc. In fact, I use them very often in order to make sure I understand the real meanings before I do my interpretation. There is one book which you might find it absolutely inspiring. It is 三易通義 "San-Yi Tong-yi" by 朱興國and is published 齊魯書社 in China. The ISBN is 7-5333-1711-4. It will just simply blow your head away. Enjoy and keep up the hard work.
Regards,
Jack
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on August 3, 2008 at 9:13am
Dear Jack,
I have 三易通義, in fact I mention it in my latest blog entry. It is a very interesting book, it is the first one that not only combines the 周易, the 連山 and the 歸藏, but also tries to give meaning to the text. The author knows his sources.
For a study of the variant texts of the Yijing I would recommend 楚竹書《周易》研究 by 濮茅左 (ISBN 7532541886), an invaluable work which Zhu Xingguo also used, it gives all the info you need (for a summary of its context look here).
Although the Shuowen is a very valuable source you have to treat it with caution. As is said in Wikipedia:
"Although the Shuowen Jiezi has incalculable value to scholars and was traditionally used as the most important Chinese etymological dictionary, since many of its analyses and definitions are unclear or incorrect, it cannot be relied upon as a single, authoritative source for definitions and graphic etymologies. Furthermore, Xu Shen lacked access to oracle bone script from the Shāng Dynasty and bronzeware script from the Shang and Western Zhou Dynasty to which scholars now have access, and these are often critical for understanding the structures and origins of logographs. For instance, he put lǜ (慮 "be concerned; consider") under the section heading 思 (sī "think") and noted it had a phonetic of hǔ (虍 "tiger"). However, the early bronze graphs for lǜ (慮) have the xīn (心 "heart") semantic component and a lǚ (呂 "a musical pitch") phonetic, also seen in early forms of lǔ (盧 "vessel; hut") and lǔ (虜 "captive").
It is best to use the Shuowen with the commentary by Duan Yucai 段玉裁, he knows to enlight many entries in it.
My main source for the meanings of characters is the 漢語大字典, it not only gives the entries from the Shuowen, the Erya and the Kang Xi dictionary, but it also gives examples of a character in complete sentences from ancient sources.
My main sources for the study of Chinese characters are given here, although some other invaluable works like the 戰國古文字典 and 殷墟甲骨學-帶你走進甲骨文的世界 by Ma Rusen 馬如森 which I acquired after I posted that message should also be mentioned.
Regards,
Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Danny VdB on August 5, 2008 at 6:18pm
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Hi Jack,
>After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.
The site is open to everyone, and it is really free space.
People can just join and watch, or find some friends in their area. Others contribute smaller or larger pieces on the various topics, or photos, etc...
The level of posts can vary from beginner to very specialized.
There is no limitation.
This is different from mailing list where everything is dumped in your mailbox.
Here people go to read the things posted by those who they are interested in, so everything takes care of itself.
If people want to set up a separate group for some purpose or other, that too is possible. See "Groups" in the left side.
Thanks for you contributions.
Danny
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Permalink Reply by Nathalie Mourier on February 24, 2009 at 12:08pm
Hi Jack and Harmen,
I'm joining in rather late as this post dates back a couple of months already. The case is mind catching, I tried to see what I could possibly find out. I insert my comments within Jack's last post.
"In Lv, Qian stands for head, Li stands fo vehicle and Dui stands for destroy or damage."
Do you infer li from 2nd, 3rd and 4th yaos in resulting hexagram? Wouldn't we then also consider xun trigram formed by 3rd, 4th and 5th yaos in resulting hexagram?
"By putting all these together, it is a clear indication that it is highly likely a car accident.
Then also maybe that there is head injury (qian).
"2. You are right that the time of Accident is related to 申 as the 5th line is an Active Officer, "
There are 2 active officers: 3rd and 5th yao. Why do we consider 5th yao rather than 3rd? Could shen and you officers show both drivers? Your client then being 3rd yao because it bears the subject attribute.
"However, what is the significant meaning of 申 turned into 申 in the 5th?"
Actually, all 3 yaos in top trigram don't change branches in resulting hexagram. Wu, shen and xu remain wu, shen and xu in resulting hexagram. This is fu yin. What could this mean? Since it's outer trigram there is worries and sadness caused to the client by something outside him: the court decision, the other party's behaviour or actions, ... Is it too far fetched to think that the client suffers head injury (top trigram, qian trigram, 5th yao moving)?
In resulting hexagram, 申 bounds to si, offspring being strong in wu day this is not auspicious to shen: in due time (when si appears) the client might get proper cure, feel better.
"3. (...) For client, assuming of same generation, the Vulnerable is then the Invisible Sibling 寅 of the 2nd. Both Officers are devitalizing the Sibling, but which one makes more sense as an injury?"
OG shen is more likely to mean an injury because it clashes yin?
OG wu moving could be chest injury like broken ribs.
"How does it related to the legal process? Since the Vulnerable is Sibling, not 世, the effect of 應 to 世 becomes less significant. The 應, if it still stands for the event, in fact devitalizes the Sibling."
應 in resulting hexagram being void, its effect may be very light if not inexistant? It combines with mao yao in second hexagram, xu being void by then client may expect no money to be handed to him.
Parents yao hai being void in 1st hexagram, does it mean the client was not properly insured.
Shame I cannot read the post you put in your blog...
Nathalie
(Blogger:Nathalie is from France. She is also well-verse in Yijing.)
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on February 24, 2009 at 6:46pm
Dear Nathalie,
Acknowledge with thanks to your email. I normally response faster in gmail because I check gmail everyday.
Thank you for your sharing. You have quite some good observations. On one hand we have to believe we can really seize the revelation that the divine power would have to indicate through casting, but on the other hand for a good deciphering, it is up to ability of the one who do the reading. It includes the understanding of rules of deciphering, ability of logical deduction, and most of all the acquired knowledge either through self experience or learning.
1. Yes, Qian, Li, and Dui are from the Changed Hexagram (the resulting hexagram as you said) Lv, in which I was using the metaphors of trigrams. Xun is another trigram which we can find within the Changed Hexagram. It is up to us to determine if it would make sense in the deciphering. If we were wrong, so does the deciphering.
Xun means to insert, like air/wind in every space. Xun also meant thigh. Li is considered as Fire, and having circular shape, hence it is being referred as carriage in "Yi-jing". Qian is having the wu-xing property of Metal, Li is being the carriage and Dui means to destroy, with the combination of devitalization of Wood by Metal (also means to destory and or to break), it was just a logical deduction for the conclusion of car accident. Here, the metaphor or meaning of Xun did not contribute to the overall picture.
2. Both the Third and the Fifth Lines can represent the accident as they are in terms of the Six Relatives the Officers. However, Officer also represents law enforcement in a lawsuit case, for instance, the judge. The Celestial Figure of the Third Line is the Green (Azure) Dragon which means justice. Combining with Officer, it refers to good judge who always maintain justice. While the Celestial Figure of the Fifth Line is the Curved Array which means entanglement. This is again a logical deduction to use the Fifth Line as the accident.
3. The Subject Line (or the subject attribute as you called) is usually used to represent the one who make the inquiry. The Object Line is then usually referred to the other party or the event. However, this is not the case here. Since the barrister was inquiring as a friend of his client, then the Line represents his friend is the Sibling. This is quite tricky in fact. If he asked as lawyer to client, then Sibling can be used. It was lucky that the barrister did not reveal his status and just said asking for his friend, otherwise, I might have been led to other direction which resulted in false reading.
4. Yes, Shen changed into Shen is Fu Yin. You ask the right question, what could it possibly mean? Fu Yin means change but no change. Unlike the Inactive Line, it is a Active Line, but changed into itself which virtually showed no change. It possibly means trying to make change but without making any progress. This is what you can find in most WWG textbook. However, Fu Yin could also possibly mean repeat occurrence. How about not one but two car accidents?
5. The beauty of WWG is that there are multiple indications even from just one single Active Line. Shen changed into Shen means repeat occurrence, but in terms of injury, we look at the metaphor, the position of the Line, etc. to determine what kind or which part of the body got injured. The interesting thing here is not just two car accident events one after the other, or the whiplash (again logical deduction for common car accident claims), it was something else.
6. In the Changed Hexagram, the Si and the Shen will not have any effect. Take this as one of the deciphering rules. Our job is to make a complicated hexagram simple, so focus only in where the importance is. When we become skillful, we can read like a story book from the hexagram.
7. Yes, Yin and Shen are being the opposite and that the You is the judge. Wu of the Original Hexagram is an Inactive Line. Though there is condition that an Inactive Line can become Aggressive Inactive, this is not the case. Even if it does, will it devitalizes Yin?
8. If the Second Line of Heng is Inactive, howcould Mao possibly be there? Yes, the outcome is they lost the case cause there were car accidents. The second car accident was self settled. The client did not reveal the second one to his barrister, but the other party found out. They run out of excuse for the whiplash. It is also shown in the hexagram. Can we tell how do we know if the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client?
9. Yes, a Neutralized (or void as you said) Parent means invalid (untimely) document which could possibly mean unproperly insured. Untimely because it is neutralized.
My Engish book of WWG is about 90% finished. Trying very hard to look for effective way to publish.
Regards,
Jack
P.S. With no offending, I am kind of feeling weird to talk to a picture of shade, but will respect if you choose not to post any picture.
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Permalink Reply by Nathalie Mourier 21 hours ago
Dear Jack,
Thank you for taking the time to comment in detail. There is not much opportunity to learn WWBG from someone with experience, your post is all the most welcome for this. On one hand there are many rules, it can become difficult to prioritize and gain skill in knowing what’s adequate to consider and what should be disregarded.
From your post it also appears there is a lot of dynamics in the way a hexagram could be considered: trigrams can be checked against one another as you explain in detail for zhen, qian, xun, li and dui. I can see the richness of the approach. Knowing when to do so and where to stop in the analytical process to keep the juice of the conclusions without falling into a dry mechanical view often is somewhat of a challenge. I suppose being regularly exposed to readings would help to get a grip of it. Shame HK is just so far away from my daily location! Can you see any alternative ways we could devise to get this exposure to practice?
Xun means to insert, like air/wind in every space. Xun also meant thigh. Li is considered as Fire, and having circular shape, hence it is being referred as carriage in "Yi-jing". Qian is having the wu-xing property of Metal, Li is being the carriage and Dui means to destroy (…)
There are various lists available that give the guas’ attributes in English with some variations in them that puzzle me sometimes. I never really paid attention to the fact that Li is related to circular shape, empty inside and closed all around (source: Da liu). I can see now how this information can be applied. I can also understand why you link it to a car (empty inside, closed all around). Notes I had so far would link qian to car (source: Chu) or kun for its potential protective action. To a beginner's mind, that’s puzzling. Maybe my notes have mistakes. Could we imagine that in a similar situation zhen trigram could represent a car with open or no rooftop?
Both the Third and the Fifth Lines can represent the accident (…) This is again a logical deduction to use the Fifth Line as the accident.
That’s a truly beautiful demonstration.
When first reading the hexagram I wondered how “mutilayered” a reading could be without losing common sense and logic. What I mean is this:
* If we focus on the situation that caused the legal situation to occur and try to understand what happened, could two officer lines show there were two accidents? Because one officer is located in the bottom trigram, could we infer that it happened at the home or close to the home of the car owner or that he caused it?
* If we focus on the consequences of the accident, could the officer lines indicate what injuries were inflicted to the people in the car?
I suppose we could focus on other factors too but that’s a lot of layers to handle and maybe this is not appropriate?
Shen changed into Shen means repeat occurrence, but in terms of injury, we look at the metaphor, the position of the Line, etc. to determine what kind or which part of the body got injured. The interesting thing here is not just two car accident events one after the other, or the whiplash (again logical deduction for common car accident claims), it was something else.
Arghhh what can it mean? The car owner had a car accident with someone he knew of someone from same family?
In the Changed Hexagram, the Si and the Shen will not have any effect. Take this as one of the deciphering rules. Our job is to make a complicated hexagram simple, so focus only in where the importance is. When we become skillful, we can read like a story book from the hexagram.
Ok. So the rule is there is no binding in the changed hexagram between yaos that resulted from the change, is this correct?
Yes, Yin and Shen are being the opposite and that the You is the judge. Wu of the Original Hexagram is an Inactive Line. Though there is condition that an Inactive Line can become Aggressive Inactive, this is not the case. Even if it does, will it devitalizes Yin?
I would have thought wu line to be strong because divination done on wu day. From your wording I would suppose the correct answer is “no” but I cannot find out why if I use whatever comprehension I have that could be summarized as following:
•wu is strong on day wu and in the same time yin is weak in day wu, that doesn’t seem too auspicious for yin yao
•the fire combination is present as we have yin-wu-xu branches in the yaos (xu being void though)
•yin represent the client and is part of the fire combination. Do you mean because he’s related to wu in the yin-wu-xu combination then wu doesn’t hurt him? Or maybe it gives away one more information: the client didn’t act in a responsible manner? If such is the case wu doesn’t devitalize the client, but show that the latter one shoots himself in the foot, so to speak.
You obviously have a different view on this but figure out what.
If the Second Line of Heng is Inactive, howcould Mao possibly be there?
In changed hexagram we only chek yaos that have changed, is this correct? Hence we don’t look at mao in changed hexagram because it’s not linked to a changing yao in first hexagram?
The client did not reveal the second one to his barrister, but the other party found out. They run out of excuse for the whiplash. It is also shown in the hexagram. Can we tell how do we know if the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client?
Assuming officer you yao is the 1st accident, assuming officer shen yao is the second accident that has to be found in the yin-shen relation? Yin-shen says it’s penalty, legal procedure started out of one’s own good rights, ungratefulness. Or maybe yin yao that represent the client bearing the tortoise attribute shows he’s hiding something, but the place of hiding is pretty slim (it’s void/neutralized) hence it will be exposed to the public attention??
My Engish book of WWG is about 90% finished. Trying very hard to look for effective way to publish.
I’ll send a private email on his.
Thank you very much for your good efforts and time.
P.S. With no offending, I am kind of feeling weird to talk to a picture of shade, but will respect if you choose not to post any picture.
No offence! It’s only at the time I thought bikini pictures wouldn’t just make it ;-) I’ll go and search my computer for something more suitable and will lighten up the shade. Cheers.
Nathalie
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu 19 hours ago
Dear Nathalie,
A nice picture you got there. Thank you. Now I know I am talking to a real person.
You got them right in most of the assumptions. Yes, there are quite some rules which require time to digest. You are right, more practice will sharpen the deciphering skills and be able to help you home in to those really mattered.
The very basic rules is:
《周易．繫辭》：「吉凶悔吝者，生乎動者也。」
Literally it means, "Be it Auspicious, Inauspicious, Repentance, or Regret, it is all provoked by Movement." (from "Xi-ci of Zhou-yi").
Without movement, there can hardly be any indication. No matter how strong they are, like Wu the Child in the case, it is only strong, but it is not Active. As such, the Trine of Fire cannot be formed (aparted from Xu being neutralized). What happen if Xu is deneutralized, and Wu is beinig the Opposite by the Day of Zi?
Also, the Changed Hexagram is the result of the change. They are not part of the Original Hexagram. The Changed Line will have effects on the Lines within the Original Hexagram, but not among themselves.
Keep it up and certainly you will get better. More time on the metaphors of trigrams will be a big plus.
Regards,
Jack
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At 11:02am on February 25, 2009, KC Goh(吳繼宗) said…
Jack, Your WWG quiz is not easy. When I read thru Harmen and Nathalie have to say, I realize they have made progress in yijing divination. You have done a good job and hope you complete your answer and go to second quiz. How do you know the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client? I am always wondering why they only considered Year, Month, and day of divination. The time of divination was not considered. why?
西元2007年10月3日 15時48分3.0秒
納甲系統：京房易之納甲法，伏神系統：王洪緒之《卜筮正宗》
時日月年 空 驛 桃 貴 羊
亡 馬 花 人 刃
甲庚己丁 戌 申 卯 丑 酉
申午酉亥 亥 未
震木三世卦：雷風恆 艮土五世卦：天澤履
【六獸】【伏 神】 【 本 卦 】 【 變 卦 】
螣蛇 應妻財─ ─庚戌土 ╳──→壬戌土 妻財─── 兄弟
勾陳 官鬼─ ─庚申金 ╳──→壬申金 官鬼───世子孫
朱雀 子孫───庚午火 壬午火 子孫─── 父母
青龍 世官鬼───辛酉金 ○──→丁丑土 妻財─ ─ 兄弟
玄武兄庚寅木 父母───辛亥水 丁卯木 兄弟───應官鬼
白虎 妻財─ ─辛丑土 ╳──→丁巳火 子孫─── 父母
I put up the WWG just for reference.
KC
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