Most interesting debate on Wen Wang Gua--a debate between the West and the East

Danny posted a very long message which was a bit difficult for a slow English reader like myself to comprehend. The worse thing was KC put my name on his reply by saying if I want to add anything. This makes me exposed and felt obliged to reply.

The reading of the hexagram took less time than reading the posting. Let me post a diagram and see if it benefits the discussion.

The casting is about tennis match, is about two people competing, as in combat. One interesting thing in making prediction of combat in WWG is that you have to figure out which line represents the home team and which line represents the guest team. For example, China team playing in China is obviously the home team, while playing outside of China is then the guest team. However, what if an Englishman wants to predict whether a German or a French is going to win, we will certainly have a hard time to figure out which is which. Trust me, if the quest is not specific enough, it would be quite difficult in doing the deciphering.

I don't know who originally made this casting and what had he in mind regarding the quest at the time. WWG can be very specific if only your quest is specific. I can only assume Hewitt is the home team as he is an Australian playing in his own country. That's make him the Subject Line 世爻, whereas his Opponent wil be the Object Line 應爻. Take note that both the Subject Line and the Object Line are not active, so it would have to see who gets more and better support and who is the strongest.





Mountain-Earth Bo 山地剝 is the 5th Alternate of the Chamber of Qian, Zi 子 the Child of Flying Serpent holds the Subject Line and Si 巳 the Officer of Azure Dragon hold the Object Line. Officer is defined as the one who devitalizes us, so it represents the enemy's troop. Wishfully we do not want to be defeated, so Child who devitalizes the Officer will be our troop.

In this castnig, it just happens that the Subject Line is holding the Child whereas the Object Line is holding the Officer. It indicates that it is an individual match rather than a team match. Zi is in the stage of Death while Si is in the stage of Rest when the seasonal strengths (according to the Month of Chou) has to be taken into consideration. They are both considered weak, however Rest is of better status when comparing to Death.

When reading a hexagram, we channel our attention primarily to those which are active, especially to examine if the Changed Line has any positive or negative effect onto its own Active Line. In this casting, both the Changed Lines, taking the advantage of being vitalized by the Day, are devitalizing their own Active Lines which virtually make the Active Lines become effectiveless, not to mention they are the Neutralized (people refers to void) during the Ten-Day Period of the day of casting.

During the day of Chou 丑, the Initial Line of Wei 未 the Parent becomes Aggressive Inactive, it's certainly posed a threat to the Subject Line. However, fortunately that the Invisible Line of Shen 申 the Sibling is active and turns the devitalization energy from Wei 未 into vitalizing the Subject Line. This would reflect on the spectators' expectation and wishful thinking. Once in a long while that an Australian could win in his own turf.

In the day of matching, it is the day of Jia-Yin 甲寅 and there the tide changed. Yin 寅 and Mao 卯 are no longer neutralized. The Uppermost Line of Yin 寅 the Asset becomes the Day Master, its Changed Line of You 酉 the Sibling can no longer pose any effect onto Yin 寅. Yin is free to pose its effect onto any other Lines especially being the Opposite of the only support of the Subject Line, the Invisible Shen 申. And worst, vitalizing the Object Line of Si 巳 the Officer. On the other hand, the Day Master of Yin 寅 also being the opposite of the Changed Line of Shen 申 in the 3rd Line, the result of which is to free Mao 卯 from being devitalized. Mao 卯 is then vitalizinig the Object Line. It is a clear indication that Safin (the Object Line) will win.

Note that the time of match has not been used.

A completed rule books of WWG was published during the Qing Dynasty, but it was a collective ideas and wisdoms since WWG was first matured during the Song Dynasty. It was written based upon the ancient social structure and protocols. As the world is evolving, we have offer it new meanings. The problem is not that it is an old book, the problem is the one who is using it.

Regards,
Jack

Reply by Anna 17 hours ago
Shifu, no wonder I couldn't explain it last night, I followed what was written in the first post, Safin as subject and Hewitt as object. I was wondering where Safin was from.

Thank you for explaining it so thorough as you always do.

Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 15 hours ago

Jack and Danny,

It seems that different sifus have different opinion. Note that Danny interprets Safin as the subject line whereas Jack says Safin is the object line.

As Jack has put it, if an Englishman wants to predict whether a German or a French is going to win, he will certainly have a hard time to figure out whether German is the subject line or object line.

As Danny has said some people use subject to be the diviner and then object represents the market.

But some also said if you are doing divination for other person, the other person will become object line and the market will become subject line.

Jack, can you address the question of predicting the stock market? Whether it can be used in your opinion?

Jack, You are quite thorough in your interpretation because you also consider the other things like the child of flying serpent and azure dragon. many books actually did not talk about this. You also consider the seasonal strengths. There are so many things to consider making the interpretation of wen wang gua not an easy task.

Jack, I notice many people did not use the time when casting the gua. Do you know the reason?

Jack, I got another question for you. I normally use opening week composite index to add up and divide by 8 and the balance will form the upper gua. Then I would use the closing week composite index(CI) of the stock market to add up and divide by 8 and the balance will form the lower gua. For example, the opening week CI of the Malaysian stock market is 887.40 and Friday closing CI is 890.67. I used Friday(Feb 27, 2009) 5.01 pm as the casting time to form the gua as Fire-water wei ji is the 3rd alternate of the chamber of Li, changed 3rd line to become Fire-Wind, second alternate of the chamber of Li. This is to predict this week's market performance. What is your interpretation for this gua listed as follow? This week will mean Mar 2, Mar 3, Mar 4, Mar 5, Mar 6.

起卦方式：手工指定 　　
公历时间：2009年2月27日17时1分　　星期五
农历时间：己丑年二月初三酉时
干支：己丑年 丙寅月 癸卯日 辛酉时　(旬空：辰巳)
神煞：驿马—巳　桃花—子　日禄—子　贵人—卯，巳
　　　　　　　离宫：火水未济　　　　　　　　　离宫：火风鼎
六神 　伏　神　【本　　卦】　　　　　　　　　　【变　　卦】
白虎　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　兄弟己巳火　应　　　▅▅▅▅▅　兄弟己巳火　
螣蛇　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　子孙己未土　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　子孙己未土　应
勾陈　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　妻财己酉金　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　妻财己酉金　
朱雀官鬼己亥水▅▅　▅▅　兄弟戊午火 　世×→　▅▅▅▅▅　妻财辛酉金　
青龙　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　子孙戊辰土　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　官鬼辛亥水　世
玄武　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　父母戊寅木　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　子孙辛丑土　

Danny, would you also care to express your opinion for the above gua?




Reply by Danny VdB 10 hours ago

Hi all,

The decision to use Safin as Subject was already made before the coins were thrown.
Most tennis matches do not have any home player, so that's not a criterion that can be used for all tennis games.

The same is with football world championships, all but one country are playing away from home, so in most matches there is no real home team.

That's why I always use the first name that is listed as the Subject, the second name is the Object.

Since the match was officially listed as Safin-Hewitt it means Safin was Subject.
If the match had been announced as Hewitt-Safin, then Hewitt would have been considered Subject in the reading.

This is an approach that can be consistently used through all games.
There is certain system used in tennis that decides who is listed first or second, I believe it has to do with where the player was in the draw, but we needn't discuss that here.

Anyway, this is how I do it for all tennis and football predictions.

***

After the facts when result is known, then it is always easy to find alternative interpretations and reasons why playerA has won, or why playerB has lost.

We all know that I Ching and WWG is very flexible.
If Hewitt had won the match we would probably find reasons in the reading why he won..

That's always the case.
The job is to read it before the match gets underway. My reading was done and published before the match.

Jack's analysis looks "pulled by the hairs" to me, and I am not sure what point he was trying to make here.

KC had asked if Hour can be used, and I told him we had done some experiments with it. He asked for an example, and I gave him.

Now, Jack seems to be trying to prove that Hour is not needed as his message concludes with "Note that the time of match has not been used."

But, nobody has said that Hour is "needed", of course we can still do readings without using the Hour.

All that was said is Hour "can" be used to get extra details as in this example.
We can read WWG in any way we want, but if we don't consider the Hour then there is no possibility to see that Hewitt will have much better start and Safin will only find the winning ways after the Pig Hour arrives.

One thing I found rather odd:
">In this casting, it just happens that the Subject Line is holding the Child whereas the Object Line is holding the Officer. It indicates that it is an individual match rather than a team match."

I think this makes no sense.

We could get this very same hexagram reading just as well for a football match or other team sport.

I have seen many team sport readings where the teams were given by Child and Officer lines.

About 4% of all readings will have Child and Officer as Subject and Object.
So how on earth does it indicate that it is an individual match rather than team match?

I don't see the logic.


Danny

Reply by Danny VdB 9 hours ago

Hi KC,

>Danny, would you also care to express your opinion for the above gua?

As far as I can see, this way of getting the hexagram by divide by 8 method is a flawed method for stock markets.
It is not difficult to see why.

For example we know that stock markets in the same region have a strong correlation.
If Germany goes down 2%, then you can be pretty sure France and Italy are also down that day.

It is no different in Asia, if Tokyo and Hong Kong are falling, then probably Malaysia stocks will also be down that day.

Some countries have more than one Index. In the US we have Dow Jones, Nasdaq, S&P,...
It is no secret that 90% of the time these indices go up or down together.
But of course each of these indices closes with very different numbers on Friday.
So, if we use your divide by 8 method based on Friday's closing price for each Index, then we will inevitably get different results for all exchanges and indices.
We will get very different results and predictions, depending on which index we used.

This proves the method is false, because we know from history that most world markets move in high correlation.

Danny

PS: It is no need to repeat the no offense topic all the time.
This is an international network and we assume that people who join and participate have the maturity not to feel attacked as soon as somebody disagrees with them.
Everyone has equal space to bring his arguments on the table and that's it.


Reply by Jack Chiu 7 hours ago
People may decipher WWG in their own way, but WWG by itself has its own interpretation rules. This is the reason why it can be repeatable, rather than being randomly picked and used. We can be flexible in the way of interpreting the event as circumstance may different, but it has to be explainable by the rules. Like gravitational force to apple. This is the scientific part of WWG. I guess this is the point I want to make.

Regardless of whether it is after-the-fact, the deciphering will be the same. I have done many deciphering, most of them on the fly, and am persistently using those rules. I have launched a complete interpretation of the rule book, one of my publications in applications of Yi-jing, and was largely received by WWG and Yi-jing lovers. I would have received criticism regarding my interpretation of the rules already, if there is any. I offer my reading to this case as academic study for those who found it meaningful and would accept those who may has different opinion, otherwise i will not be responding at the first place.

Regards,
Jack

Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 5 hours ago

Jack,

I can see you probably are responding to Danny's comments. I hope you would still respond to the question I raised in the discussion.

I would invite other ww gua lovers to join in the discussion, people like Harmen Mesker and Nathalie Mourier.

Regards,

KC

Reply by Danny VdB 4 hours ago

Hi Jack,

>People may decipher WWG in their own way, but WWG by itself has its own interpretation rules.

I guess that's where we differ.

There are rules for calculation, and on that point WWG is pretty clear and rigid.
We both are not doing anything different when we calculate Gua Shen, or the timeliness of the lines, etcetera..
That's also why a computer can do that part of the job, because it is rigid mathematics.

But there are no "rules" for interpretation, at the most there is something like "guidelines" for interpretation.
Guidelines are more flexible than rules.
If there were rigid rules for interpretation, then it would not be interpretation, then it would also be part of calculation.

So, this is where schools and people differ : in their way of interpreting the various factors that are calculated in WWG.
For that the rules are not fixed and rigid.
If they were, then a computer would give us the complete interpretation as well, then an astrologer would not be needed.

The calculation part is easily repeatable, but the interpretation part is not.
That doesn't mean the interpretation is random.
Interpretation consists of judgement calls made by the astrologer, that's where he uses his experience.
Usually in a reading not all fingers are pointing in the same direction.
Some factors may favor the Subject line, some factors give advantage to Object, changing lines come in, etcetera.

Then the outcome is not written in stone.
The astrologer makes a judgement call as to which factors will gain the upper hand and shift the balance in one way or the other.

Sometimes it will be a very small detail that makes the difference.
Next the reality proves his judgement right or wrong.

It is in this part that after-the-fact is a lot more easy than before the fact.
The calculation part is the same, but the interpretation is a lot more easy when we know already what was the outcome.

If you don't believe me then you are welcome to post before-the-fact reading about tennis, stock market or whatever you want.
Next I will give my interpretations at the end of the market week or after the match is played.

***

Anyway, the real topic of this thread was about using the Hour in WWG.
So far all your comments have done everything except address KC's question, and I start wondering why.

Why don't you just tell KC that you are not in favor of using Hour, or that you think it is unnecessary, or that you have not experimented with it...

All would be perfectly OK answers..
I guess KC just hopes to use Hour for his stock market work.

We are not in China here. It is allowed to give straight answers to straight questions.


Danny

Reply by Jack Chiu 2 hours ago

Danny,

Why does it have to do with China, I don't get it. Perhaps I should learn a bit more western culture before I join this network. One thing I do learn from my limited international experience with over 30 years of business experience in high tech industry with US is that I don't put words in other's mouth and I respect people even business competitors.

Anyway, one thing I guess you are right is that you have different interprettion of the rules, and what you think it is for calculation. I may not exactly know what you are referring to. I may perhpas choose the wrong English word "rule" as it is from your standpoint referring to something rigid. Well, they are in fact quite rigid in order to maintain repeatability. The rules I am referring to is the interaction between lines and i don't think you will be able to calculate. Without these rules, it would be like a hitch hunch and that's why lots of talented and educated people are getting stuck.

The usage of Hour was not registered in WWG. As time evolves, people are tryinig to figure the meaning of Hour in WWG. I am not a big fan of Hour in WWG, but my research makes me an open-minded person as to whether the usage makes sense or not. I use my way of interpretation and highlight to KC that hour was not used. I didn't comment much on it. It is up to KC to search for the answer. In a subtle way, I am answering KC.

As I pointed out, regardless of whether it is after-the-fact, the decipherinig using the interpretation "rules" will be the same because it is repeatable.

I have offer my due service as a member to offer different opinion, now I will excuse myself from the topic.

Regards,
Jack

Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 23 minutes ago

Danny and Jack,

I can feel the heat. Thank you for answering. I am sure many have benefited from the academic debate if they are interested in wwgua.

Regards,

KC

Danny and Jack responding to KC comments on Wen Wang Gua

>The day of divination is ox which will combine with the rat to turn into earth which will also help the subject Safin. Do you agree?

Hi KC,

In this case it is true of course, but it was only one of many factors in the reading.
The main point is that the Hour when the match was played, and the change of Hour in mid match, gave us a very good picture of how the match evolved.
This means we can use the Hour to get more details.

Doing WWG is not about sticking 100% to the methods we find described in old books, we can go further.

Obviously there were no tennis matches or stock markets in those days, so we need to use logic how we will frame the reading when want to use it for sports events or stocks.

For example we have also done some experiments on the list about football world championships and so.

I am not a football fan, but when it is going to clutter our TV screens for weeks anyway, then why not use it for some tests?

Since these tournaments start with a group stage, with 4 or 6 teams in each group, I constructed a method to do just one reading for each group, with each team getting one line.

Then we tried to predict the matches and the final winner based on very few readings, covering all the groups and teams in one go.

Prognosis for the matches was done based on the lines for each team and on the day and hour the match was played.

This worked surprisingly well.

***

For stock markets I have seen some attempts to use WWG for it, but it was not very convincing.

Some people use Subject to be the diviner and then Object represents the market.
I think that easily leads to confusing picture.

The market is basically an ongoing struggle between buyers and sellers.

When the buyers are stronger then prices tend to go up, when the sellers are more strong then prices will tend to fall.

So a more logical framework is to consider Subject = Buyers, Object = Sellers.

Then the separating lines are just the middle men (like market makers or daytraders who typically buy and sell during the day). Sometimes the Sellers will be stronger than the buyers, but prices won't go down if the middle men absorb all that selling.

The outside lines in the reading are then outside market factors like political decisions or other news items.

To me that would be a more clear mapping for market prognosis purposes.
But I haven't tested it.


>I hope to see more of these kinds of examples

Well, bringing more examples will not make my idea or the approach any clearer.

I am very much a "be your own student" type of person.

Why would anyone want to fill his cup with my tea?

If you want you can try what I say and if it works for you then you can use it.

In doing so you will have created your own examples.

But if it doesn't work for you then just throw my ideas away.

That's what I do too if something doesn't work for me.


Danny




My name is called by KC in his reply which makes me vulnerable. In fact, I haven't read the entire message which Danny put up. It's rather lengthy and supposed in details. The only comment I would offer at this stage is that the reason while we do the casting is to seize the revelation that the divine power might have on a particular event and day. In most case, it's the day of the moment of thought. In Chinese, it is called 天機.

Under general practice, we will consider the date of the event, if it is known, and look it up in the hexagram which has already been casted. It is simply because WWG has the ability to predict. There is another school of thought saying that we should use the date of event if it is known and claiming to be more accurate, even the thought came prior to the actual event. I would leave it to other people to judge. To me, it is manipulating.

Regards,
Jack

KC Goh's comment on Danny's example--Well done

Danny, I have read thru your wwg explanation and to me it is a good write-up and it is very clear. I don't know whether Jack would want to add anything.

I put up the gua in Chinese just in case some Chinese readers want to check the terms.

The day of divination is ox which will combined with the rat to turn into earth which will also help the subject Safin. Do you agree?

Good work. I hope to see more of these kinds of examples, especially they are on the stock market prediction.
Regards, KC

起卦方式：手工指定 　　
公历时间：2005年1月29日21时20分　　星期六
农历时间：甲申年十二月二十亥时
干支：甲申年 丁丑月 癸丑日 癸亥时　(旬空：寅卯)
神煞：驿马—亥　桃花—午　日禄—子　贵人—卯，巳
　　　　　　　乾宫：山地剥　　　　　　　　　 　兑宫：地山谦
六神 　伏神　 【本　　卦】　　　　　　　　 　　【变　　卦】
白虎　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　妻财丙寅木　　 ○→ 　▅▅　▅▅　兄弟癸酉金　
螣蛇兄弟壬申金▅▅　▅▅　子孙丙子水 世safin 　▅▅　▅▅　子孙癸亥水　世
勾陈　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　父母丙戌土　　　 　 ▅▅　▅▅　父母癸丑土　
朱雀　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　妻财乙卯木　　 ×→ 　▅▅▅▅▅　兄弟丙申金　
青龙　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　官鬼乙巳火应Hewitt 　▅▅　▅▅　官鬼丙午火　应
玄武　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　父母乙未土　　　　　 ▅▅　▅▅　父母丙辰土


Interpretation used
Jan 30 　甲寅日(Day)
甲戌時（Time）
乙亥時 （Time）

Blogger:Danny is from Balkans. The Balkans is the historical name of a geographic region of southeastern Europe. The region takes its name from the Balkan Mountains, which run through the centre of Bulgaria into eastern Serbia. The region has a combined area of 550,000 km2 (212,000 sq mi) and a population of about 55 million people. Danny was born in Belgium and moved to Bulgaria 7 years ago(2002).

Danny gave an example using hour in a wen wang gua divination

This is in response to a question by KC, but it may also interest others.
It gives an example of using the Hour Pillar for fine tuning a WWG reading.
I posted this experiment 4 years ago, on Joseph Yu's WWG list.
It was about the Australian Open Tennis 2005 final.
Below are the old postings about my reading, and the outcome.

Danny

-----

Here is the divination for tomorrow's men's final at the Australian
Open tennis, the first grand slam event of the year.


Date of divination 29 Jan
Voids: Tiger and Rabbit


Q: Safin - Hewitt ?
Match will be played 30 Jan 05 at 7:30 pm in Melbourne

Month Branch(MB): Ox (Chou)
Date Branch (DB): Tiger (Yin)
Hour Branch(HB): Dog (Xu) changing to Pig (Hai) at 9:20 pm

Gua Shen: Dog (Xu)

Subject : Marat Safin
Object : Lleyton Hewitt


___ Ch W/W Tiger(3) Void -> Broth. Rooster
_ _ S Offsp. Rat(6)
_ _ Par. Dog (Wg)
_ _ Ch W/W Rabbit(3) Void -> Broth. Monkey
_ _ O O/G Snake(12)
_ _ Par. Goat (Wg)




Background:
This can be a rare match because it is 100 year birthday of the
tournament, and for the first time in 29 years an Australian could win (Hewitt).

It is also the first time the final is being played in the evening and not in the afternoon.

Both players reached the final with a lot of good luck.

In their previous 9 meetings Safin has won 5 times and Hewitt 4 times, with Safin winning their last encounter.

Hewitt is the 3rd in the rankings, Safin is the 4th.

Hewitt has never reached the final on his home turf.

Safin reached the final last year and three years ago, but lost on both occasions.

Hewitt is expected to have strong support from the home crowd

The reading looks quite complicated.

Safin (Subject) is in line 5 , Offspring line, Rat in stage 6
Hewitt (Object) is in line 2, O/G line, Snake in stage 12

So Safin wants to attack (Offspring) and Hewitt counterattack (O/G).

That was to be expected as it is their know styles of play.

Both players are in not very strong stage.

Subject(Safin) controls Object (Hewitt)

Safin can win this final.

The seperating lines give a strong Parents/Dog line on Safin's side.

Dog is also the Gua Shen , so this is very strong.

Parents is strong defense, so this could indicate that Safin defends very well against the counter-attacks of Hewitt (Parents drains Object at O/G)

Hewitt has a moving W/W Rabbit line on his side. It is Void but
because it moves it can be used.

However, since it changes to Brothers / Monkey line, this will become support for the Subject (Safin)

Since the home crowd is expected to play an important role in this match, we can also look at the outside lines, which can easily be seen as representing the spectators around the court.

Behind Safin is a moving W/W Tiger in line6. Tiger drains Subject/Rat, but it also changes to Brothers/ Rooster, which becomes a favorable factor for Subject / Safin

Behind Hewitt is a strong Parents / Goat line , which actually drains
Object (Hewitt).

Perhaps the big expectations on his shoulders will be too much and
become a disadvantage?

The whole reading is Fan Yin of Gua. I have no idea what this will
mean in this case.

I may be biased, but it seems to me there is more that favors Safin to
win.

He has the Gua Shen on his side and very important to defend against the counter attacks of the opponent.

Both moving lines change in favor of Safin. Subject controls Object.

起卦方式：手工指定 　　
公历时间：2005年1月29日21时20分　　星期六
农历时间：甲申年十二月二十亥时
干支：甲申年 丁丑月 癸丑日 癸亥时　(旬空：寅卯)
神煞：驿马—亥　桃花—午　日禄—子　贵人—卯，巳
　　　　　　　乾宫：山地剥　　　　　　　　　　兑宫：地山谦
六神 　伏神　 【本　　卦】　　　　　　　　　　【变　　卦】
白虎　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　妻财丙寅木　　○→　 ▅▅　▅▅　兄弟癸酉金　
螣蛇兄弟壬申金▅▅　▅▅　子孙丙子水 世safin 　 ▅▅　▅▅　子孙癸亥水　世
勾陈　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　父母丙戌土　　　 　 ▅▅　▅▅　父母癸丑土　
朱雀　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　妻财乙卯木　　 ×→ 　▅▅▅▅▅　兄弟丙申金　
青龙　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　官鬼乙巳火应Hewitt 　▅▅　▅▅　官鬼丙午火　应
玄武　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　父母乙未土　　　　　 ▅▅　▅▅　父母丙辰土


Interpretation used
Jan 30 　甲寅日(Day)
甲戌時（Time）
乙亥時 （Time）



Let's look how the calendar affects the situation.

Month Branch(MB) Ox combines with Object (Hewitt). The home favorite is in very good
form.

Date Branch(DB) is Tiger , which supports Object (Hewitt) , but also combines with
Safin's seperating line Dog.

Date Stem(DS) is Wood which drains Safin and supports Hewitt. Hewitt is supposed
to have the better start in this match.

The match starts in Dog Hour, which is the Gua Shen. The quality of play should be exceptional.

After 1 hour and 50 minutes of play the Hour changes to Pig.

Pig supports Subject/ Water (Safin) and controls Object/ Fire (Hewitt)

If the match lasts longer than 1h 50 min , then Safin's chances improve
a lot.

So I would expect a close match with Hewitt starting better and Safin edging him in the end, probably after 4 or 5 sets.


Let's see what happens.

--------
--------

This was the result:

Hewitt got a very good start as predicted , he played exceptional and did not make any errors in the first set.

Safin looked thight and did not play his normal powerful game.

Perhaps this was because the strong Dog seperating line on his side excerting too much control over his Rat Subject line.

He was overcontrolled and not free flowing in his play.

Hewitt won the 1st set easily by 6-1

In the second set Hewitt started to make more errors and Safin could take his only chance to win this set by 6-3, although he was still not playing well.

Now it was 1-1 in sets

It became very interesting when the match moved into Pig Hour.

This was a Yin Wood Pig Hour, so as the Hour changes there is again a brief boost of Wood from the Hour Stem(HS).

Indeed, at beginning of the 3rd set Hewitt played well again and moved to a 4-1 lead in the set.

By then we were something like 15 minutes into the Pig Hour, so I expected Safin to improve and perhaps still win this set because the Water from Pig Hour would become very beneficial for him.

And so happened. Suddenly Safin found his best tennis and won 5 games in a row to steal this set by 6-4 and go up 2-1 in sets.

A very dramatic turn around in the match.

It continued in the 4th set with Safin earning a quick 2-0 lead by breaking Hewitt serve immediately.

Safin had now won 7 games in a row, which is pretty rare in men's tennis finals.

Hewitt was not playing bad, but Safin hit winners left and right and
served many aces.

Safin kept up his stellar play and did not give Hewitt even a single chance to take back the lost service game and come back in the match.

Safin won the 4th set by 6-4, and was the winner by 3 sets to 1

Tennis matches often stretch over 3 or 4 hours , so there are usually 2 or even 3 different Hours elements that can come and change the match.
----------

The West also learned about WenWangGua and Yijing, they used to say "don't play play"

A few years ago I gave a course in xiangshu 象數usage of the Yijing, of course we also covered Wenwanggua. Attached you will find examples from Shao Weihua 邵偉華 his book 周易預測例題解, which I used to demonstrate the practice of the system. For those not familiar with the system it can be interesting to see how much it is intertwined with the basics of Four Pillars; for those acquainted with the material it can be interesting to see how an expert applies it.

Harmen
(Blogger:Harmen is a Chinese scholar from Holland. He knows Chinese and he teaches Yijing at the Oriental College in Amsterdam.)

Dear Harmen,

I have just browsed through your site. You have (done) quite some studies in symbols. To be honest, when I first come to realize you are working on Yi-lin. I was a bit surprise. How a foreigner can possibly understand the meanings of all these ancient Chinese words. Now I know you have the right sources, the "Shuo-wen", etc. , I believe you will be doing great. There are a few books regarding the original meanings of Chinese characters. "Shuo-wen" is definitely one of them, we have also 六書故 "Liu-shu-gu", 爾雅 "Er-ya", 康熙字典 Emperor Kang-xi Dictionary, etc. In fact, I use them very often in order to make sure I understand the real meanings before I do my interpretation. There is one book which you might find it absolutely inspiring. It is 三易通義 "San-Yi Tong-yi" by 朱興國and is published 齊魯書社 in China. The ISBN is 7-5333-1711-4. It will just simply blow your head away. Enjoy and keep up the hard work.

Regards,
Jack
(Blogger: Jack is from Hong Kong, a yijing feng shui writer and teacher)

Dear Jack,

I have 三易通義, in fact I mention it in my latest blog entry. It is a very interesting book, it is the first one that not only combines the 周易, the 連山 and the 歸藏, but also tries to give meaning to the text. The author knows his sources.

For a study of the variant texts of the Yijing I would recommend 楚竹書《周易》研究 by 濮茅左 (ISBN 7532541886), an invaluable work which Zhu Xingguo also used, it gives all the info you need (for a summary of its context look here).

Although the Shuowen is a very valuable source you have to treat it with caution. As is said in Wikipedia:

"Although the Shuowen Jiezi has incalculable value to scholars and was traditionally used as the most important Chinese etymological dictionary, since many of its analyses and definitions are unclear or incorrect, it cannot be relied upon as a single, authoritative source for definitions and graphic etymologies. Furthermore, Xu Shen lacked access to oracle bone script from the Shāng Dynasty and bronzeware script from the Shang and Western Zhou Dynasty to which scholars now have access, and these are often critical for understanding the structures and origins of logographs. For instance, he put lǜ (慮 "be concerned; consider") under the section heading 思 (sī "think") and noted it had a phonetic of hǔ (虍 "tiger"). However, the early bronze graphs for lǜ (慮) have the xīn (心 "heart") semantic component and a lǚ (呂 "a musical pitch") phonetic, also seen in early forms of lǔ (盧 "vessel; hut") and lǔ (虜 "captive").

It is best to use the Shuowen with the commentary by Duan Yucai 段玉裁, he knows to enlight many entries in it.

My main source for the meanings of characters is the 漢語大字典, it not only gives the entries from the Shuowen, the Erya and the Kang Xi dictionary, but it also gives examples of a character in complete sentences from ancient sources.

My main sources for the study of Chinese characters are given here, although some other invaluable works like the 戰國古文字典 and 殷墟甲骨學-帶你走進甲骨文的世界 by Ma Rusen 馬如森 which I acquired after I posted that message should also be mentioned.

Regards,

Harmen.


Hi Jack,

After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.

The site is open to everyone, and it is really free space.
People can just join and watch, or find some friends in their area. Others contribute smaller or larger pieces on the various topics, or photos, etc...
The level of posts can vary from beginner to very specialized.
There is no limitation.

This is different from mailing list where everything is dumped in your mailbox.
Here people go to read the things posted by those who they are interested in, so everything takes care of itself.

If people want to set up a separate group for some purpose or other, that too is possible. See "Groups" in the left side.

Thanks for you contributions.

Danny

Reply by Danny VdB on April 11, 2008 at 11:19am

Nice article, Harmen.
The "Six Spirits" actually represent the 6 directions in 3D space.
We have the 4 cardinal directions E-S-W-N (with the elements and the 4 seasons related to them)
They are given by White Tiger (W), Black Tortoise(N), Green Dragon (E) and Crimson Bird (S).
It's easy to see that the meanings attributed to these 4 spirits are taken from their direction/element/season.

This leaves the 2 vertical directions up and down.
Qi Lin is the Pole Star (Polaris), which is always visible up in the northern sky .
Flying Snake is the opposite, it is the South Polaris and always under our feet (provided we are in Northern hemisphere).
Both are Earth element, but a different manifestation.
That's why Flying Snake is related to false alarm and strange hidden phenomena.(will never manifest in the sky, will stay under the ground).
Basic emotions attributed to Earth are worry and sympathy.
That's why Qi Lin/Polaris mention worries as a main theme.
In positive meaning it is the balanced center that keeps overview/sympathy with the entire situation.
If it is a strong line it will not worry. If it is weak and attacked, then it worries because balance is too weak or lost already.
▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on April 11, 2008 at 1:21pm
Hi Danny,

Thanks for the additional information! It is always good to have a broader perspective of these terms.

Harmen.

▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 15, 2008 at 9:31am
Nice write-up you have here, particularly the translation. I had had Shao's book long times ago but found it not going anywhere. So I start writing my own. The bible of WenWangGua is 黃金策, and is embedded in 卜筮正宗. Assuming that you know Chinese. It's worth spending time on.

Regards,
Jack
▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 15, 2008 at 9:37am
The 6 Celestial Figures are not 3D in space. They are just simply stars in the sky, with 4 in 4 directions. The Curved Array is indeed the polar star, right at the center, but the Flying Serpent is not quite exactly at the Center. There is a book of Chinese Ancient Stars Map which might be useful. It is published by the Space Mesuem in Hong Kong.

Regards,
Jack

▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on July 20, 2008 at 5:37pm
Hi Jack, thank you for your comment. I have the 黃金策, but I find it very hard to read. I don't read Chinese fluently (this is an understatement), and for some reason I find the 黃金策 difficult to understand. The same goes for the complete 卜筮正宗, I have it as an electronic text on my computer for some years, marked as 'important!', but certain parts are incomprehensible to me. But your remark has reminded me of the text, and I'll have another look at it. I need to know as much as possible about the subject for my Yijing cards. So all tips are very much appreciated.

I like Shao's books because they are easy to read, and he gives a lot of examples. On the other hand I also suspect him of simplifying the matter somewhat. WWG isn't always as easy as he makes it appear.

For those who would also like to take a look at the 卜筮正宗: a good version of the text can be found here as a pdf.

Best wishes,

Harmen.

▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 27, 2008 at 11:48am
Dear Harman,

Your comment on 黃金策 is absolutely correct. It is not easy to understand. Unlike the published version, your e-text version doesn't have much interpretation which would only increase its difficulty in understanding. That's why I launched the newly revised interpretaion during the Book Fair this year in Hong Kong. Since the right goes to my publisher, Juxian Guan（聚賢館）, I cannot possibly post the email version except the book cover as per the attached.

Of those 14 volumes （卷）in 卜筮正宗, the contents of 黃金策 are found on Volume 4 through 12. Assuming its first publication in Early Ming Dynasty, there is evolution since then. The evolution is not really something completely new, but endorsement and minor enhancement through real practices. There are also lots of ancient Chinese stories which even Chinese could even possibly know, not to mention to understand.

I would say Shao learnt in a hard way, and is somehow mixing the interpretation of WWG with other divination related to hexagrams. WWG is only one of the interpretation of divination using Yi-jing. There are a few others. The key to WWG is to find out which line （爻）is the "Vulnerable" and hence the Friendly, the Foe and the Unfriendly, and where the focus of the hexagram is. From then, it would just like reading a real life story.

For WWG lover, you may want to take a quiz on the following real case:

Small claims of Injury (a court case)
Date of Divination: October 3, 2007
or year 丁亥, month 己酉, day 庚午
The hexagrams: Lv of Heng 恆之履
The quiz:
1. what is this claims all about?
2. when did the accident happens?
3. at what stage in the legal process when divination?
4. what would possibly be the final outcome?
Attachments:
• 黃金策cover.jpg, 538 KB
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Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on July 27, 2008 at 2:30pm
Hi Jack,

Thank you for your comments. I have found your book on the site of your publisher, and when I have repleted my credit card I will order it.

About the case: I have not done this before and I am a real beginner so I am bound to make mistakes in this. But let's err and learn.

1. The claim is about an accident, this is something you gave away at point 2. I would say a car accident, considering the trigrams of hexagram 32 which both have to do with transport and automobiles. The upper trigram Zhen could resemble a crash.
2. I think month 申. I use the following - probably strange - reasoning: The month in which the divination is done is 己酉. 酉 is Yin Metal, and the 5th line of hexagram 32 is a Yin Metal line. This line belongs to month 申, so I assume the accident happened in month 申.
3. I find this difficult to answer as I know nothing about legal processes, so I find it hard to pinpoint a stage. I am inclined to say that the other party is trying to work out an agreement, because the 應 line generates the 世 line.
4. To me it doesn't look too good. What strikes me is that, looking at the trigrams, we have a Wood-Wood hexagram, which turns into a Metal-Metal hexagram. Metal destroys Wood.
Hexagram 32 belongs to Wood, and hexagram 10 belongs to Earth. Earth destroys Wood. The complete 之卦 destroys the 本卦, and that appears as a bad omen to me. 　
On the other hand, the 世 line turns from Metal into Earth, and since Earth generates Metal, this might be a good sign. The 應 line stays Earth, so there is no gain for the other party.

Do you give courses, Jack? I would very much like to follow a course in WWG.

Best wishes,

Harmen.

▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 3:08pm
Dear Harmen,

Nice try, but I am not sure if I want to give out the outcome so early as I am still expecting more responses from WWG lovers.

Most Chinese people on one hand are being humble, but on the other hand are afraid to show mistake. You have proven yourself that you could be doing great in WWG by going over this hurdle. Having knowledge in Yi-jing gives you the advantage, but afraid to show mistake won't let you going anywhere. I am impressive by your knowledge in Yi-jing. Congratulations.

1. You are right. It's about car accident. The upper trigram changes from Zhen to Qian and the lower trigram changes from Xun to Dui, they are all related to Wood and Metal. Though Metal devitalizes Wood and the Changed hexagram Lv represents the end of the event while the Original hexagram Heng represents the start of the event, it didn't tell us what kind of accident it was. We have to look at it from the metaphor perspective. In Heng, Zhen stands for motion and Xun stands for Insert. In Lv, Qian stands for head, Li stands fo vehicle and Dui stands for destroy or damage. By putting all these together, it is a clear indication that it is highly likely a car accident.
2. You are right that the time of Accident is related to 申 as the 5th line is an Active Officer, but not in the month of 申 of the same year. The 5th is in the upper trigram which usually means years in terms of timing. In fact, the car accident was happened during the month of 子 in the year of 甲申 or 2004. However, what is the significant meaning of 申 turned into 申 in the 5th?
3. By examining the Officer, there are multiple Officers. We have Green Dragon-Officer in the 3rd and Curved Array- Officer in the 5th. Both of which could possibly represents the injury part of the body, 5th being the neck and 3rd being the chest or stomach. One thing I forgot to specify that this divination is not a self divination, it's a divination on behalf of a client. If I told you in the first place, you may probably have something a little different. For client, assuming of same generation, the Vulnerable is then the Invisible Sibling 寅 of the 2nd. Both Officers are devitalizing the Sibling, but which one makes more sense as an injury? How does it related to the legal process? Since the Vulnerable is Sibling, not 世, the effect of 應 to 世 becomes less significant. The 應, if it still stands for the event, in fact devitalizes the Sibling.
4. I save the final outcome for the time being and see if there are more responses.

Having said that, is it all? Are we missing any details? For instance, a neck injury could possible be a whiplash (it was indeed), how about all the other Active and Changed? We have quite a busy hexagram here (with so many Active lines). I led the discussion of this divination which presented by a barrister student of mine. He found the outcome absolutely amazing.

Yes, I do give course, both in Juxian Guan classroom and the Chinese Wisdom Management Society. The latter is a group of professional managers who are tryiing to apply Chinese wisdoms in modern management. I also give private lectures as well, but I am not sure how to advise you on your course of mastering WWG. By the way, where is your location?

Regards,
Jack

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Permalink Reply by Danny VdB on July 28, 2008 at 4:57pm

Send Message
Hi Jack,

There are not so many people in the West who know about WWG.
That's why a Google search for "Wen Wang Gua" yields relatively few results.
My own website comes out 5th place, and this ning network site comes out on 6th place already.
That means there is almost no English language information about it.

Most people who know about it have learned through Joseph Yu's course, which comes 1st on Google search too.

Whether there is more room for books or courses on the subject is difficult to say. I Ching book itself has been well known and popular in the West for decades, and nearly every good bookstore has it on the shelves. But nobody knows WWG.

It has been a part of my software for years, but there is really need for more written materials in English if this method is to gain broader popularity.
▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 5:29pm

Dear Danny,

I think you are doing great in maintaining this site and I see number of members is growing. I don't normally join any metaphysic website as a member because most of which are too supersitious. Chinese metaphysic is not all about supersitious, it's about law of nature and how to apply in daily life. Harman's message does interest me. I replied to Harmen because I see him going into the myst like I did with Shao.

The Yi-jing you normally find in bookstore is what I called traditional Yi-jing which was interpreted wrongly by Conficius two thousand years ago. There are people today revisiting Yi-jing with reiterated perspective-- the perspective which had been forgotten for millenniums.

It is true that not that many people in the West talks about WWG. It does give me the idea of writing WWG in English in my future projects. I have three books regarding divination using Yi-jing published. The first one is WWG introductory, the second one is the advanced WWG, and the third one in fact is about history of evolution in divination using Yi-jing, not just WWG.

After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.

Perhaps I can share with you my handy tools by using MS Excel. The good thing is it's simple, that bad thing is I still need to fix the calendar.

Anyway, keep up the hard work.

Regards,
Jack

Attachments:
• 易卜.xls, 56 KB
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on July 28, 2008 at 6:27pm
Dear harmen,

I learnt from your homepage in Four Pillars that you are currently working on Yi-lin. Amazing. The three books I mentioned earlier are related to Divination using Yi-jing. I was in fact planing to write something about Yi-jing in the Han Dynasty but found it could be quite boring, so I changed it to evolution history but with emphasis on Han Yi. The title of the book is 易卜縱橫 published by Juxian Guan. Hope you find it helpful.

Regards,
Jack
▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on August 2, 2008 at 9:13pm
Hi Jack,

Thanks for your explanation, this example really helps me to find structure in all the data that you gather with WWG. I find it difficult to prioritize all the rules and to separate the important from the unimportant. I'll study your explanation carefully and if I have questions I know how to find you. I live in Holland, by the way.

Yes, bit by bit I am also trying to translate the Yilin - compared to the Yijing it is easier on certain points, although there are references to historical happenings and figures which are difficult to decipher. But it is a welcome diversion when you are too much obsessed with the text of the Yijing. I like exploring the early meanings of Chinese characters within the context of the Yijing (see my weblog, I just added an entry about hexagram 23), and go as deep as possible with the sources that I have gathered throughout the years. One is as good as one's sources, and with other sources I might come up with different findings, but so far I find the information that one can get from studying the origin of Chinese characters simply amazing.

Can you give me the ISBN's of your books? I love your blog on this site (too bad I can't really read your Chinese blogs, it is just a bit too complicated for me). Keep up the good work!

Best wishes,

Harmen.


Reply by Jack Chiu on August 3, 2008 at 3:03am
Dear Harmen,

Thank you for your reply. I have updated the ISBN in the photo.

Regards,
Jack
▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on August 3, 2008 at 3:41am
Dear Harmen,

I have just browsed through your site. You have quite some studys in symbols. To be honest, when I first come to realize you are working on Yi-lin. I was a bit surprise. How a foreign can possibly understand the meanings of all these ancient Chinese words. Now I know you have the right sources, the "Shuo-wen", etc. , I believe you will be doing great. There are a few books regarding the original meanings of Chinese characters. "Shuo-wen" is definitely one of them, we have also 六書故 "Liu-shu-gu", 爾雅 "Er-ya", 康熙字典 Emperor Kang-xi Dictionary, etc. In fact, I use them very often in order to make sure I understand the real meanings before I do my interpretation. There is one book which you might find it absolutely inspiring. It is 三易通義 "San-Yi Tong-yi" by 朱興國and is published 齊魯書社 in China. The ISBN is 7-5333-1711-4. It will just simply blow your head away. Enjoy and keep up the hard work.

Regards,
Jack
▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Harmen Mesker on August 3, 2008 at 9:13am
Dear Jack,

I have 三易通義, in fact I mention it in my latest blog entry. It is a very interesting book, it is the first one that not only combines the 周易, the 連山 and the 歸藏, but also tries to give meaning to the text. The author knows his sources.

For a study of the variant texts of the Yijing I would recommend 楚竹書《周易》研究 by 濮茅左 (ISBN 7532541886), an invaluable work which Zhu Xingguo also used, it gives all the info you need (for a summary of its context look here).

Although the Shuowen is a very valuable source you have to treat it with caution. As is said in Wikipedia:

"Although the Shuowen Jiezi has incalculable value to scholars and was traditionally used as the most important Chinese etymological dictionary, since many of its analyses and definitions are unclear or incorrect, it cannot be relied upon as a single, authoritative source for definitions and graphic etymologies. Furthermore, Xu Shen lacked access to oracle bone script from the Shāng Dynasty and bronzeware script from the Shang and Western Zhou Dynasty to which scholars now have access, and these are often critical for understanding the structures and origins of logographs. For instance, he put lǜ (慮 "be concerned; consider") under the section heading 思 (sī "think") and noted it had a phonetic of hǔ (虍 "tiger"). However, the early bronze graphs for lǜ (慮) have the xīn (心 "heart") semantic component and a lǚ (呂 "a musical pitch") phonetic, also seen in early forms of lǔ (盧 "vessel; hut") and lǔ (虜 "captive").

It is best to use the Shuowen with the commentary by Duan Yucai 段玉裁, he knows to enlight many entries in it.

My main source for the meanings of characters is the 漢語大字典, it not only gives the entries from the Shuowen, the Erya and the Kang Xi dictionary, but it also gives examples of a character in complete sentences from ancient sources.

My main sources for the study of Chinese characters are given here, although some other invaluable works like the 戰國古文字典 and 殷墟甲骨學-帶你走進甲骨文的世界 by Ma Rusen 馬如森 which I acquired after I posted that message should also be mentioned.

Regards,

Harmen.
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Permalink Reply by Danny VdB on August 5, 2008 at 6:18pm
Send Message
Hi Jack,

>After I join, I browse through the site and I believe you need people to lead your forums. Someone bilingual likes Harmen.


The site is open to everyone, and it is really free space.
People can just join and watch, or find some friends in their area. Others contribute smaller or larger pieces on the various topics, or photos, etc...
The level of posts can vary from beginner to very specialized.
There is no limitation.

This is different from mailing list where everything is dumped in your mailbox.
Here people go to read the things posted by those who they are interested in, so everything takes care of itself.

If people want to set up a separate group for some purpose or other, that too is possible. See "Groups" in the left side.

Thanks for you contributions.

Danny
▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Nathalie Mourier on February 24, 2009 at 12:08pm
Hi Jack and Harmen,

I'm joining in rather late as this post dates back a couple of months already. The case is mind catching, I tried to see what I could possibly find out. I insert my comments within Jack's last post.
"In Lv, Qian stands for head, Li stands fo vehicle and Dui stands for destroy or damage."
Do you infer li from 2nd, 3rd and 4th yaos in resulting hexagram? Wouldn't we then also consider xun trigram formed by 3rd, 4th and 5th yaos in resulting hexagram?

"By putting all these together, it is a clear indication that it is highly likely a car accident.
Then also maybe that there is head injury (qian).

"2. You are right that the time of Accident is related to 申 as the 5th line is an Active Officer, "
There are 2 active officers: 3rd and 5th yao. Why do we consider 5th yao rather than 3rd? Could shen and you officers show both drivers? Your client then being 3rd yao because it bears the subject attribute.

"However, what is the significant meaning of 申 turned into 申 in the 5th?"
Actually, all 3 yaos in top trigram don't change branches in resulting hexagram. Wu, shen and xu remain wu, shen and xu in resulting hexagram. This is fu yin. What could this mean? Since it's outer trigram there is worries and sadness caused to the client by something outside him: the court decision, the other party's behaviour or actions, ... Is it too far fetched to think that the client suffers head injury (top trigram, qian trigram, 5th yao moving)?
In resulting hexagram, 申 bounds to si, offspring being strong in wu day this is not auspicious to shen: in due time (when si appears) the client might get proper cure, feel better.

"3. (...) For client, assuming of same generation, the Vulnerable is then the Invisible Sibling 寅 of the 2nd. Both Officers are devitalizing the Sibling, but which one makes more sense as an injury?"
OG shen is more likely to mean an injury because it clashes yin?
OG wu moving could be chest injury like broken ribs.

"How does it related to the legal process? Since the Vulnerable is Sibling, not 世, the effect of 應 to 世 becomes less significant. The 應, if it still stands for the event, in fact devitalizes the Sibling."
應 in resulting hexagram being void, its effect may be very light if not inexistant? It combines with mao yao in second hexagram, xu being void by then client may expect no money to be handed to him.


Parents yao hai being void in 1st hexagram, does it mean the client was not properly insured.

Shame I cannot read the post you put in your blog...
Nathalie
(Blogger:Nathalie is from France. She is also well-verse in Yijing.)

▶ Reply to This
Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu on February 24, 2009 at 6:46pm

Dear Nathalie,

Acknowledge with thanks to your email. I normally response faster in gmail because I check gmail everyday.

Thank you for your sharing. You have quite some good observations. On one hand we have to believe we can really seize the revelation that the divine power would have to indicate through casting, but on the other hand for a good deciphering, it is up to ability of the one who do the reading. It includes the understanding of rules of deciphering, ability of logical deduction, and most of all the acquired knowledge either through self experience or learning.

1. Yes, Qian, Li, and Dui are from the Changed Hexagram (the resulting hexagram as you said) Lv, in which I was using the metaphors of trigrams. Xun is another trigram which we can find within the Changed Hexagram. It is up to us to determine if it would make sense in the deciphering. If we were wrong, so does the deciphering.

Xun means to insert, like air/wind in every space. Xun also meant thigh. Li is considered as Fire, and having circular shape, hence it is being referred as carriage in "Yi-jing". Qian is having the wu-xing property of Metal, Li is being the carriage and Dui means to destroy, with the combination of devitalization of Wood by Metal (also means to destory and or to break), it was just a logical deduction for the conclusion of car accident. Here, the metaphor or meaning of Xun did not contribute to the overall picture.

2. Both the Third and the Fifth Lines can represent the accident as they are in terms of the Six Relatives the Officers. However, Officer also represents law enforcement in a lawsuit case, for instance, the judge. The Celestial Figure of the Third Line is the Green (Azure) Dragon which means justice. Combining with Officer, it refers to good judge who always maintain justice. While the Celestial Figure of the Fifth Line is the Curved Array which means entanglement. This is again a logical deduction to use the Fifth Line as the accident.

3. The Subject Line (or the subject attribute as you called) is usually used to represent the one who make the inquiry. The Object Line is then usually referred to the other party or the event. However, this is not the case here. Since the barrister was inquiring as a friend of his client, then the Line represents his friend is the Sibling. This is quite tricky in fact. If he asked as lawyer to client, then Sibling can be used. It was lucky that the barrister did not reveal his status and just said asking for his friend, otherwise, I might have been led to other direction which resulted in false reading.

4. Yes, Shen changed into Shen is Fu Yin. You ask the right question, what could it possibly mean? Fu Yin means change but no change. Unlike the Inactive Line, it is a Active Line, but changed into itself which virtually showed no change. It possibly means trying to make change but without making any progress. This is what you can find in most WWG textbook. However, Fu Yin could also possibly mean repeat occurrence. How about not one but two car accidents?

5. The beauty of WWG is that there are multiple indications even from just one single Active Line. Shen changed into Shen means repeat occurrence, but in terms of injury, we look at the metaphor, the position of the Line, etc. to determine what kind or which part of the body got injured. The interesting thing here is not just two car accident events one after the other, or the whiplash (again logical deduction for common car accident claims), it was something else.

6. In the Changed Hexagram, the Si and the Shen will not have any effect. Take this as one of the deciphering rules. Our job is to make a complicated hexagram simple, so focus only in where the importance is. When we become skillful, we can read like a story book from the hexagram.

7. Yes, Yin and Shen are being the opposite and that the You is the judge. Wu of the Original Hexagram is an Inactive Line. Though there is condition that an Inactive Line can become Aggressive Inactive, this is not the case. Even if it does, will it devitalizes Yin?

8. If the Second Line of Heng is Inactive, howcould Mao possibly be there? Yes, the outcome is they lost the case cause there were car accidents. The second car accident was self settled. The client did not reveal the second one to his barrister, but the other party found out. They run out of excuse for the whiplash. It is also shown in the hexagram. Can we tell how do we know if the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client?

9. Yes, a Neutralized (or void as you said) Parent means invalid (untimely) document which could possibly mean unproperly insured. Untimely because it is neutralized.

My Engish book of WWG is about 90% finished. Trying very hard to look for effective way to publish.

Regards,
Jack

P.S. With no offending, I am kind of feeling weird to talk to a picture of shade, but will respect if you choose not to post any picture.
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Permalink Reply by Nathalie Mourier 21 hours ago
Dear Jack,

Thank you for taking the time to comment in detail. There is not much opportunity to learn WWBG from someone with experience, your post is all the most welcome for this. On one hand there are many rules, it can become difficult to prioritize and gain skill in knowing what’s adequate to consider and what should be disregarded.

From your post it also appears there is a lot of dynamics in the way a hexagram could be considered: trigrams can be checked against one another as you explain in detail for zhen, qian, xun, li and dui. I can see the richness of the approach. Knowing when to do so and where to stop in the analytical process to keep the juice of the conclusions without falling into a dry mechanical view often is somewhat of a challenge. I suppose being regularly exposed to readings would help to get a grip of it. Shame HK is just so far away from my daily location! Can you see any alternative ways we could devise to get this exposure to practice?

Xun means to insert, like air/wind in every space. Xun also meant thigh. Li is considered as Fire, and having circular shape, hence it is being referred as carriage in "Yi-jing". Qian is having the wu-xing property of Metal, Li is being the carriage and Dui means to destroy (…)
There are various lists available that give the guas’ attributes in English with some variations in them that puzzle me sometimes. I never really paid attention to the fact that Li is related to circular shape, empty inside and closed all around (source: Da liu). I can see now how this information can be applied. I can also understand why you link it to a car (empty inside, closed all around). Notes I had so far would link qian to car (source: Chu) or kun for its potential protective action. To a beginner's mind, that’s puzzling. Maybe my notes have mistakes. Could we imagine that in a similar situation zhen trigram could represent a car with open or no rooftop?

Both the Third and the Fifth Lines can represent the accident (…) This is again a logical deduction to use the Fifth Line as the accident.
That’s a truly beautiful demonstration.
When first reading the hexagram I wondered how “mutilayered” a reading could be without losing common sense and logic. What I mean is this:
* If we focus on the situation that caused the legal situation to occur and try to understand what happened, could two officer lines show there were two accidents? Because one officer is located in the bottom trigram, could we infer that it happened at the home or close to the home of the car owner or that he caused it?
* If we focus on the consequences of the accident, could the officer lines indicate what injuries were inflicted to the people in the car?
I suppose we could focus on other factors too but that’s a lot of layers to handle and maybe this is not appropriate?

Shen changed into Shen means repeat occurrence, but in terms of injury, we look at the metaphor, the position of the Line, etc. to determine what kind or which part of the body got injured. The interesting thing here is not just two car accident events one after the other, or the whiplash (again logical deduction for common car accident claims), it was something else.
Arghhh what can it mean? The car owner had a car accident with someone he knew of someone from same family?

In the Changed Hexagram, the Si and the Shen will not have any effect. Take this as one of the deciphering rules. Our job is to make a complicated hexagram simple, so focus only in where the importance is. When we become skillful, we can read like a story book from the hexagram.
Ok. So the rule is there is no binding in the changed hexagram between yaos that resulted from the change, is this correct?

Yes, Yin and Shen are being the opposite and that the You is the judge. Wu of the Original Hexagram is an Inactive Line. Though there is condition that an Inactive Line can become Aggressive Inactive, this is not the case. Even if it does, will it devitalizes Yin?
I would have thought wu line to be strong because divination done on wu day. From your wording I would suppose the correct answer is “no” but I cannot find out why if I use whatever comprehension I have that could be summarized as following:
•wu is strong on day wu and in the same time yin is weak in day wu, that doesn’t seem too auspicious for yin yao
•the fire combination is present as we have yin-wu-xu branches in the yaos (xu being void though)
•yin represent the client and is part of the fire combination. Do you mean because he’s related to wu in the yin-wu-xu combination then wu doesn’t hurt him? Or maybe it gives away one more information: the client didn’t act in a responsible manner? If such is the case wu doesn’t devitalize the client, but show that the latter one shoots himself in the foot, so to speak.
You obviously have a different view on this but figure out what.

If the Second Line of Heng is Inactive, howcould Mao possibly be there?
In changed hexagram we only chek yaos that have changed, is this correct? Hence we don’t look at mao in changed hexagram because it’s not linked to a changing yao in first hexagram?

The client did not reveal the second one to his barrister, but the other party found out. They run out of excuse for the whiplash. It is also shown in the hexagram. Can we tell how do we know if the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client?
Assuming officer you yao is the 1st accident, assuming officer shen yao is the second accident that has to be found in the yin-shen relation? Yin-shen says it’s penalty, legal procedure started out of one’s own good rights, ungratefulness. Or maybe yin yao that represent the client bearing the tortoise attribute shows he’s hiding something, but the place of hiding is pretty slim (it’s void/neutralized) hence it will be exposed to the public attention??

My Engish book of WWG is about 90% finished. Trying very hard to look for effective way to publish.
I’ll send a private email on his.

Thank you very much for your good efforts and time.

P.S. With no offending, I am kind of feeling weird to talk to a picture of shade, but will respect if you choose not to post any picture.

No offence! It’s only at the time I thought bikini pictures wouldn’t just make it ;-) I’ll go and search my computer for something more suitable and will lighten up the shade. Cheers.

Nathalie
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Permalink Reply by Jack Chiu 19 hours ago

Dear Nathalie,

A nice picture you got there. Thank you. Now I know I am talking to a real person.

You got them right in most of the assumptions. Yes, there are quite some rules which require time to digest. You are right, more practice will sharpen the deciphering skills and be able to help you home in to those really mattered.

The very basic rules is:

《周易．繫辭》：「吉凶悔吝者，生乎動者也。」

Literally it means, "Be it Auspicious, Inauspicious, Repentance, or Regret, it is all provoked by Movement." (from "Xi-ci of Zhou-yi").

Without movement, there can hardly be any indication. No matter how strong they are, like Wu the Child in the case, it is only strong, but it is not Active. As such, the Trine of Fire cannot be formed (aparted from Xu being neutralized). What happen if Xu is deneutralized, and Wu is beinig the Opposite by the Day of Zi?

Also, the Changed Hexagram is the result of the change. They are not part of the Original Hexagram. The Changed Line will have effects on the Lines within the Original Hexagram, but not among themselves.

Keep it up and certainly you will get better. More time on the metaphors of trigrams will be a big plus.

Regards,
Jack
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At 11:02am on February 25, 2009, KC Goh(吳繼宗) said…
Jack, Your WWG quiz is not easy. When I read thru Harmen and Nathalie have to say, I realize they have made progress in yijing divination. You have done a good job and hope you complete your answer and go to second quiz. How do you know the second accident was purposedly concealed by the client? I am always wondering why they only considered Year, Month, and day of divination. The time of divination was not considered. why?
西元2007年10月3日 15時48分3.0秒
納甲系統：京房易之納甲法，伏神系統：王洪緒之《卜筮正宗》
時日月年　　空　驛　桃　貴　羊
　　　　　　亡　馬　花　人　刃
甲庚己丁　　戌　申　卯　丑　酉
申午酉亥　　亥　　　　　未　　
　　　　　　　　　震木三世卦：雷風恆 　　　　艮土五世卦：天澤履

【六獸】【伏　　神】　 【　本　　卦　】　　　　　　【　變　　卦　】
　螣蛇　　　　 應妻財─　─庚戌土　╳──→壬戌土 妻財───　兄弟
　勾陳　　　　　官鬼─　─庚申金　╳──→壬申金 官鬼───世子孫
　朱雀　　　　 　子孫───庚午火　　 　　壬午火 子孫───　父母
　青龍　　　 世官鬼───辛酉金　 ○──→丁丑土 妻財─　─　兄弟
　玄武兄庚寅木　父母───辛亥水　　　　　丁卯木 兄弟───應官鬼
　白虎　　　 　妻財─　─辛丑土　 ╳──→丁巳火 子孫───　父母
I put up the WWG just for reference.
KC

KC Goh's answer to Josie of Panama--Open the SE1 door will draw the wealth from your house during period 8

I am glad Howard has answered your question pertaining to the building of your new house in the beautiful island.

Normally when you are facing SE1, your door will be opened in SE1 as well.

According to Liufa feng shui, it is perfectly alright if you open your door in SE1 during period 9 which will start from 2017.

Feng Shui is about how we align ourselves with the nature, the planets and their magnetic field.

Lao Tze’s Dao De Jing talked about the world from nature, nature from the way(道法自然)， emphasizing the word nature. Nature means it is not your desire but you have to conform with the nature, with the way.

Yin Fu Jing(陰符經) talked about “observe the way of Heaven, and hold to Heaven’s action. That’s all we should do”. Observe the way of Heaven, meaning you have to align with the planets and their magnetic field.

Why cann’t we open SE1 door during period 8 ? It is because you will draw the Qi or your wealth out from the house. But in period 9, you can open the SE1 door because the good Qi will be drawn from outside to inside the house.

Period 9 will start from 2017. Your house will be prosperous for 24 years from 2017.

Maybe it is time to build the house now because by the time you complete the house, it will be 2013 and you wait for another 4 years to 2017, your new wealth will come in.

If your desire is for future wealth, you are in the right track. If you are thinking of present wealth, open SE1 door will not help you because it is not the right time yet.

If it is your desire to build your house facing SE1, it is perfectly OK as what Howard has said it. You will have future wealth, no problem.

Now is 2009 and to reach 2017 will be another 8 years, if you can wait that long for your wealth, it is perfectly OK. It all depends on what you want and desire.

I am only telling you the law of nature and the law of feng shui. If our desire does not conform to the law of nature, then we will suffer. If we want to live harmony with nature, we have to conform to the law of nature, so to speak.

Josie from Panama has got a feng shui question for you.

Hi,
First, please forgive me for my english, is not good because I am french.

My question is : I have a nice land on a island. We want to build a house this year and the best place to built it is front the sea. We have a choice to do it in E3 (110°) or SE1 (117°).
My gua is 6 and my husband gua is 6.

I like the SE1 (117°) because is the best view to the sea, but the chart is string pearls, I don't know if is realy bad and Has the 8 M on the front 8W on back, (reverse chart)
the chart is this one : 765 876 432 ( facing IS 876)
321 987 654
543 198 219

My land has Sea view with some trees on the front and trees on back.
So I don't know if is very bad or if we can work with it.
IF we choose SE1 our bedroom will be in 654. My husband office in 198 and 543.

Somebody can help me please ?
Josie

Josie's new house plan


Josie's new house will be located in this beautiful island.


Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) on January 31, 2009 at 5:06pm

should face south(158 to 202) and the door should open on the south. SE and E should plant trees



Reply by josie on January 31, 2009 at 5:50pm
Thank for your answer. It is not possible to choose S (158 to 202) in this case the house will be with the side in front the ocean and the view will be to the trees. Is not logical to have a ocean front and put the house looking at the trees and the land beside us.

My question was which one is the best E3 or SE1.

best regards
Josie



Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) on February 1, 2009 at 1:41pm

This is what we call liufa feng shui. you can check the website at http://www.fengshui-liufa.com
There are two schools of thought. Period 8 Di Gua (Earth Gua) started from 1996 to 2016. Period 8 Tian Yun(Heaven luck) started from 2004 to 2023. Period 8 is yin gua when you fly, you should fly reverser.
9 4 2
1 8 6
5 3 7


In period 8, you can open the door at S2, w2, NW1, NE3. Only doors opened at any four of the direction could attract wealth, The other direction should not open door.

Your landscape is not in line with period 8 requirement. As you said it is not logical to have the ocean at the side, but your landscape does not conform with the period 8 requirement. Ask the Liufa master, they will tell you. other master might have different opinion.


Reply by Howard Choy on February 8, 2009 at 9:03pm

Hi Josie,

Seeing you are talking about Flying Stars, I will make my comments accordingly.

By all means, build your dream house facing SE1 because you like it most, human desire is an important factor in Feng Shui..

You can take care of the “ a continuous string of pearls” with an entry at the back to match up with the timely 8W and a low garden wall at the front to match up with the timely 8M without blocking the water view. A reverse house needs physical support for the stars in the microenvironment and that would give you an opportunity to create the right form and configurations from the formless Gua Qi stars.

Your bedroom can be handled with some Water Wuxing Jiehua and your husband’s office is not too bad, he has the timely water star there and also the 3,8 combination (influence of adjacent palace in term of the water stars that influence wealth) makes for Early Heaven Wood, and that is good for business growth.

The concern I have as a Feng Shui architect is the actual planning itself, if you do a qi flow study of the design, there is not enough ju qi (assembled qi) areas in the house to ju qing (assembled feelings and affections) and you are not taking full advantage of a wonderful site, for example, blocking off the corners will miss an opportunity to give you a panoramic view of the water.

Also, if you study the Wuxing of the form of the house, overall it is Wood because it is rectangular in shape, the rounded corners are considered Metal and Metal will chop Wood, so I would seriously think about keeping the shape simple and regular to make it more Yadan (elegantly simple).

Because of the “continuous string of pearls” you will need a more open plan internally and not blocking up the qi flow from one side of the house to another. All the palaces need to be linked up as much as possible because the numbers do that to make the “continuous string”.

Regards,

Howard Choy



Reply by josie 3 hours ago To Howard Choy

first, I am so sorry I did not see your answer before today.

I am very happy for your comments, I feel better and I will less worry about string pearls. My opinion was like yours, if I feel better with a view, wy not to choose it ?
I will take care of yours advises.

Thanks a lot.
Josie