Showing posts with label kcgoh. Show all posts
Showing posts with label kcgoh. Show all posts
Wednesday, August 5, 2009
Thursday, May 28, 2009
槟城首席部长林冠英的祖墓有好風水
清明节系列
图文：杨淯珽
中华民族的清明节，是子孙们祭祖念亲的节日，子孙们會到祖先墳墓扫墓及祭拜，以盡孝道。
《光华日报》借清明时节对祖先的感恩怀念，特别邀请易经风水学者杨淯珽师傅以中华民族对风水学术的角度，談祖墓对子孙后代的影响。
杨淯珽第一句话就说：“吉凶看阳宅，成败看阴宅”，祖坟对子孙的影响是巨大的，可以說占了绝大部分的祸福，一个人的官有多大，财有多钜，和祖坟的龙穴、砂、向、水,格局、元运、时间等有绝对的关系，这就是为什么同一个八字；年、月、日、时辰相同出生的人，他們的成就會有高低不同的原因。
槟城首席部长林冠英的祖墓坐落在峇株吧辖境内的福建福寿义山，其祖山在风水术语上称为龙楼宝殿，雄壮厚重，一路龙形发脉连绵起伏，层层剥换，苍劲有力的往马六甲海峡奔走而去，另峇株巴辖河也一路跟随龙脉九曲随龙流入马六甲海峡，龙脉由祖山行至结穴之处约莫七至八公里，此龙脉行之离海口约莫2公里处开始转慢过峡起父母山开帐出龙虎砂，进而落脉束气起星顶，而林家的祖坟点穴正落在星顶上，后面正靠圆顶贪狼星为父母山，在风水学圆顶贪狼星主出文武贵人高官，在风水上此祖坟龙穴、砂、向、水、明堂、点穴造葬等都是上等的格局，但此地只能出高官或一方诸侯，而不能出丞相天子，因为来龙只有七、八公里，龙气不够远大，龙的征护兵将，旗鼓和明堂并没有百官朝拜等格局。
峇株吧辖境内的福建福寿义山
圓頂
墓碑
左青龍.
明堂
案山
水口
白虎
祖山1
祖山2
此坟点在星顶正穴，龙砂和虎砂向内环护有力不会过高，代表贵人随从的助力，而明堂正前方的案山为一武曲星，案山后才是马六甲海峡，把堂气聚在明堂，水口关锁，气聚有情。
在理气上造葬为三合派的手法，坐卯向酉（坐东向西）兼线，水口处戌乾、合乙丙交而趋戌火局，左水倒右收左边长生水，巨门官禄等水上堂，归于正库衰方出水，临官来龙入首，内堂水口出戌乾，拨砂催官正确，玄空六法理气，水口戌，来龙辰卯,合八运雌雄挨星，八运水运1996年起至2017年，山运2002年至2025年，此坟大旺，以此推断，林冠英最少可以做首席部长至2017年，但官运依然亨通至2025年，如果民联执政，林吉祥有望官拜联邦正部长。
另外，附近造墓者说，在1986年茅草行动，林吉祥父子犯官非入狱时，林氏祖坟明堂的案山当年犯流年三煞，適時有发展商在大兴土木催动三煞，故有此劫。
地灵出人杰，秀水出豪富，此龙另一元宝形父母山孕育出吉隆坡一丹斯级的超级李姓富豪，一龙二杰一贵一富。
中国先贤相信风水学並認爲祖坟影响后人的富、贵、贫、贱；先人骸骨对应山水吉凶在此可以印证不虚。
图文：杨淯珽
中华民族的清明节，是子孙们祭祖念亲的节日，子孙们會到祖先墳墓扫墓及祭拜，以盡孝道。
《光华日报》借清明时节对祖先的感恩怀念，特别邀请易经风水学者杨淯珽师傅以中华民族对风水学术的角度，談祖墓对子孙后代的影响。
杨淯珽第一句话就说：“吉凶看阳宅，成败看阴宅”，祖坟对子孙的影响是巨大的，可以說占了绝大部分的祸福，一个人的官有多大，财有多钜，和祖坟的龙穴、砂、向、水,格局、元运、时间等有绝对的关系，这就是为什么同一个八字；年、月、日、时辰相同出生的人，他們的成就會有高低不同的原因。
槟城首席部长林冠英的祖墓坐落在峇株吧辖境内的福建福寿义山，其祖山在风水术语上称为龙楼宝殿，雄壮厚重，一路龙形发脉连绵起伏，层层剥换，苍劲有力的往马六甲海峡奔走而去，另峇株巴辖河也一路跟随龙脉九曲随龙流入马六甲海峡，龙脉由祖山行至结穴之处约莫七至八公里，此龙脉行之离海口约莫2公里处开始转慢过峡起父母山开帐出龙虎砂，进而落脉束气起星顶，而林家的祖坟点穴正落在星顶上，后面正靠圆顶贪狼星为父母山，在风水学圆顶贪狼星主出文武贵人高官，在风水上此祖坟龙穴、砂、向、水、明堂、点穴造葬等都是上等的格局，但此地只能出高官或一方诸侯，而不能出丞相天子，因为来龙只有七、八公里，龙气不够远大，龙的征护兵将，旗鼓和明堂并没有百官朝拜等格局。
峇株吧辖境内的福建福寿义山
圓頂
墓碑
左青龍.
明堂
案山
水口
白虎
祖山1
祖山2
此坟点在星顶正穴，龙砂和虎砂向内环护有力不会过高，代表贵人随从的助力，而明堂正前方的案山为一武曲星，案山后才是马六甲海峡，把堂气聚在明堂，水口关锁，气聚有情。
在理气上造葬为三合派的手法，坐卯向酉（坐东向西）兼线，水口处戌乾、合乙丙交而趋戌火局，左水倒右收左边长生水，巨门官禄等水上堂，归于正库衰方出水，临官来龙入首，内堂水口出戌乾，拨砂催官正确，玄空六法理气，水口戌，来龙辰卯,合八运雌雄挨星，八运水运1996年起至2017年，山运2002年至2025年，此坟大旺，以此推断，林冠英最少可以做首席部长至2017年，但官运依然亨通至2025年，如果民联执政，林吉祥有望官拜联邦正部长。
另外，附近造墓者说，在1986年茅草行动，林吉祥父子犯官非入狱时，林氏祖坟明堂的案山当年犯流年三煞，適時有发展商在大兴土木催动三煞，故有此劫。
地灵出人杰，秀水出豪富，此龙另一元宝形父母山孕育出吉隆坡一丹斯级的超级李姓富豪，一龙二杰一贵一富。
中国先贤相信风水学並認爲祖坟影响后人的富、贵、贫、贱；先人骸骨对应山水吉凶在此可以印证不虚。
Monday, March 2, 2009
Most interesting debate on Wen Wang Gua--a debate between the West and the East
Danny posted a very long message which was a bit difficult for a slow English reader like myself to comprehend. The worse thing was KC put my name on his reply by saying if I want to add anything. This makes me exposed and felt obliged to reply.
The reading of the hexagram took less time than reading the posting. Let me post a diagram and see if it benefits the discussion.
The casting is about tennis match, is about two people competing, as in combat. One interesting thing in making prediction of combat in WWG is that you have to figure out which line represents the home team and which line represents the guest team. For example, China team playing in China is obviously the home team, while playing outside of China is then the guest team. However, what if an Englishman wants to predict whether a German or a French is going to win, we will certainly have a hard time to figure out which is which. Trust me, if the quest is not specific enough, it would be quite difficult in doing the deciphering.
I don't know who originally made this casting and what had he in mind regarding the quest at the time. WWG can be very specific if only your quest is specific. I can only assume Hewitt is the home team as he is an Australian playing in his own country. That's make him the Subject Line 世爻, whereas his Opponent wil be the Object Line 應爻. Take note that both the Subject Line and the Object Line are not active, so it would have to see who gets more and better support and who is the strongest.
Mountain-Earth Bo 山地剝 is the 5th Alternate of the Chamber of Qian, Zi 子 the Child of Flying Serpent holds the Subject Line and Si 巳 the Officer of Azure Dragon hold the Object Line. Officer is defined as the one who devitalizes us, so it represents the enemy's troop. Wishfully we do not want to be defeated, so Child who devitalizes the Officer will be our troop.
In this castnig, it just happens that the Subject Line is holding the Child whereas the Object Line is holding the Officer. It indicates that it is an individual match rather than a team match. Zi is in the stage of Death while Si is in the stage of Rest when the seasonal strengths (according to the Month of Chou) has to be taken into consideration. They are both considered weak, however Rest is of better status when comparing to Death.
When reading a hexagram, we channel our attention primarily to those which are active, especially to examine if the Changed Line has any positive or negative effect onto its own Active Line. In this casting, both the Changed Lines, taking the advantage of being vitalized by the Day, are devitalizing their own Active Lines which virtually make the Active Lines become effectiveless, not to mention they are the Neutralized (people refers to void) during the Ten-Day Period of the day of casting.
During the day of Chou 丑, the Initial Line of Wei 未 the Parent becomes Aggressive Inactive, it's certainly posed a threat to the Subject Line. However, fortunately that the Invisible Line of Shen 申 the Sibling is active and turns the devitalization energy from Wei 未 into vitalizing the Subject Line. This would reflect on the spectators' expectation and wishful thinking. Once in a long while that an Australian could win in his own turf.
In the day of matching, it is the day of Jia-Yin 甲寅 and there the tide changed. Yin 寅 and Mao 卯 are no longer neutralized. The Uppermost Line of Yin 寅 the Asset becomes the Day Master, its Changed Line of You 酉 the Sibling can no longer pose any effect onto Yin 寅. Yin is free to pose its effect onto any other Lines especially being the Opposite of the only support of the Subject Line, the Invisible Shen 申. And worst, vitalizing the Object Line of Si 巳 the Officer. On the other hand, the Day Master of Yin 寅 also being the opposite of the Changed Line of Shen 申 in the 3rd Line, the result of which is to free Mao 卯 from being devitalized. Mao 卯 is then vitalizinig the Object Line. It is a clear indication that Safin (the Object Line) will win.
Note that the time of match has not been used.
A completed rule books of WWG was published during the Qing Dynasty, but it was a collective ideas and wisdoms since WWG was first matured during the Song Dynasty. It was written based upon the ancient social structure and protocols. As the world is evolving, we have offer it new meanings. The problem is not that it is an old book, the problem is the one who is using it.
Regards,
Jack
Reply by Anna 17 hours ago
Shifu, no wonder I couldn't explain it last night, I followed what was written in the first post, Safin as subject and Hewitt as object. I was wondering where Safin was from.
Thank you for explaining it so thorough as you always do.
Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 15 hours ago
Jack and Danny,
It seems that different sifus have different opinion. Note that Danny interprets Safin as the subject line whereas Jack says Safin is the object line.
As Jack has put it, if an Englishman wants to predict whether a German or a French is going to win, he will certainly have a hard time to figure out whether German is the subject line or object line.
As Danny has said some people use subject to be the diviner and then object represents the market.
But some also said if you are doing divination for other person, the other person will become object line and the market will become subject line.
Jack, can you address the question of predicting the stock market? Whether it can be used in your opinion?
Jack, You are quite thorough in your interpretation because you also consider the other things like the child of flying serpent and azure dragon. many books actually did not talk about this. You also consider the seasonal strengths. There are so many things to consider making the interpretation of wen wang gua not an easy task.
Jack, I notice many people did not use the time when casting the gua. Do you know the reason?
Jack, I got another question for you. I normally use opening week composite index to add up and divide by 8 and the balance will form the upper gua. Then I would use the closing week composite index(CI) of the stock market to add up and divide by 8 and the balance will form the lower gua. For example, the opening week CI of the Malaysian stock market is 887.40 and Friday closing CI is 890.67. I used Friday(Feb 27, 2009) 5.01 pm as the casting time to form the gua as Fire-water wei ji is the 3rd alternate of the chamber of Li, changed 3rd line to become Fire-Wind, second alternate of the chamber of Li. This is to predict this week's market performance. What is your interpretation for this gua listed as follow? This week will mean Mar 2, Mar 3, Mar 4, Mar 5, Mar 6.
起卦方式：手工指定
公历时间：2009年2月27日17时1分 星期五
农历时间：己丑年二月初三酉时
干支：己丑年 丙寅月 癸卯日 辛酉时 (旬空：辰巳)
神煞：驿马—巳 桃花—子 日禄—子 贵人—卯，巳
离宫：火水未济 离宫：火风鼎
六神 伏 神 【本 卦】 【变 卦】
白虎 ▅▅▅▅▅ 兄弟己巳火 应 ▅▅▅▅▅ 兄弟己巳火
螣蛇 ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙己未土 ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙己未土 应
勾陈 ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财己酉金 ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财己酉金
朱雀官鬼己亥水▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟戊午火 世×→ ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财辛酉金
青龙 ▅▅▅▅▅ 子孙戊辰土 ▅▅▅▅▅ 官鬼辛亥水 世
玄武 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母戊寅木 ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙辛丑土
Danny, would you also care to express your opinion for the above gua?
Reply by Danny VdB 10 hours ago
Hi all,
The decision to use Safin as Subject was already made before the coins were thrown.
Most tennis matches do not have any home player, so that's not a criterion that can be used for all tennis games.
The same is with football world championships, all but one country are playing away from home, so in most matches there is no real home team.
That's why I always use the first name that is listed as the Subject, the second name is the Object.
Since the match was officially listed as Safin-Hewitt it means Safin was Subject.
If the match had been announced as Hewitt-Safin, then Hewitt would have been considered Subject in the reading.
This is an approach that can be consistently used through all games.
There is certain system used in tennis that decides who is listed first or second, I believe it has to do with where the player was in the draw, but we needn't discuss that here.
Anyway, this is how I do it for all tennis and football predictions.
***
After the facts when result is known, then it is always easy to find alternative interpretations and reasons why playerA has won, or why playerB has lost.
We all know that I Ching and WWG is very flexible.
If Hewitt had won the match we would probably find reasons in the reading why he won..
That's always the case.
The job is to read it before the match gets underway. My reading was done and published before the match.
Jack's analysis looks "pulled by the hairs" to me, and I am not sure what point he was trying to make here.
KC had asked if Hour can be used, and I told him we had done some experiments with it. He asked for an example, and I gave him.
Now, Jack seems to be trying to prove that Hour is not needed as his message concludes with "Note that the time of match has not been used."
But, nobody has said that Hour is "needed", of course we can still do readings without using the Hour.
All that was said is Hour "can" be used to get extra details as in this example.
We can read WWG in any way we want, but if we don't consider the Hour then there is no possibility to see that Hewitt will have much better start and Safin will only find the winning ways after the Pig Hour arrives.
One thing I found rather odd:
">In this casting, it just happens that the Subject Line is holding the Child whereas the Object Line is holding the Officer. It indicates that it is an individual match rather than a team match."
I think this makes no sense.
We could get this very same hexagram reading just as well for a football match or other team sport.
I have seen many team sport readings where the teams were given by Child and Officer lines.
About 4% of all readings will have Child and Officer as Subject and Object.
So how on earth does it indicate that it is an individual match rather than team match?
I don't see the logic.
Danny
Reply by Danny VdB 9 hours ago
Hi KC,
>Danny, would you also care to express your opinion for the above gua?
As far as I can see, this way of getting the hexagram by divide by 8 method is a flawed method for stock markets.
It is not difficult to see why.
For example we know that stock markets in the same region have a strong correlation.
If Germany goes down 2%, then you can be pretty sure France and Italy are also down that day.
It is no different in Asia, if Tokyo and Hong Kong are falling, then probably Malaysia stocks will also be down that day.
Some countries have more than one Index. In the US we have Dow Jones, Nasdaq, S&P,...
It is no secret that 90% of the time these indices go up or down together.
But of course each of these indices closes with very different numbers on Friday.
So, if we use your divide by 8 method based on Friday's closing price for each Index, then we will inevitably get different results for all exchanges and indices.
We will get very different results and predictions, depending on which index we used.
This proves the method is false, because we know from history that most world markets move in high correlation.
Danny
PS: It is no need to repeat the no offense topic all the time.
This is an international network and we assume that people who join and participate have the maturity not to feel attacked as soon as somebody disagrees with them.
Everyone has equal space to bring his arguments on the table and that's it.
Reply by Jack Chiu 7 hours ago
People may decipher WWG in their own way, but WWG by itself has its own interpretation rules. This is the reason why it can be repeatable, rather than being randomly picked and used. We can be flexible in the way of interpreting the event as circumstance may different, but it has to be explainable by the rules. Like gravitational force to apple. This is the scientific part of WWG. I guess this is the point I want to make.
Regardless of whether it is after-the-fact, the deciphering will be the same. I have done many deciphering, most of them on the fly, and am persistently using those rules. I have launched a complete interpretation of the rule book, one of my publications in applications of Yi-jing, and was largely received by WWG and Yi-jing lovers. I would have received criticism regarding my interpretation of the rules already, if there is any. I offer my reading to this case as academic study for those who found it meaningful and would accept those who may has different opinion, otherwise i will not be responding at the first place.
Regards,
Jack
Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 5 hours ago
Jack,
I can see you probably are responding to Danny's comments. I hope you would still respond to the question I raised in the discussion.
I would invite other ww gua lovers to join in the discussion, people like Harmen Mesker and Nathalie Mourier.
Regards,
KC
Reply by Danny VdB 4 hours ago
Hi Jack,
>People may decipher WWG in their own way, but WWG by itself has its own interpretation rules.
I guess that's where we differ.
There are rules for calculation, and on that point WWG is pretty clear and rigid.
We both are not doing anything different when we calculate Gua Shen, or the timeliness of the lines, etcetera..
That's also why a computer can do that part of the job, because it is rigid mathematics.
But there are no "rules" for interpretation, at the most there is something like "guidelines" for interpretation.
Guidelines are more flexible than rules.
If there were rigid rules for interpretation, then it would not be interpretation, then it would also be part of calculation.
So, this is where schools and people differ : in their way of interpreting the various factors that are calculated in WWG.
For that the rules are not fixed and rigid.
If they were, then a computer would give us the complete interpretation as well, then an astrologer would not be needed.
The calculation part is easily repeatable, but the interpretation part is not.
That doesn't mean the interpretation is random.
Interpretation consists of judgement calls made by the astrologer, that's where he uses his experience.
Usually in a reading not all fingers are pointing in the same direction.
Some factors may favor the Subject line, some factors give advantage to Object, changing lines come in, etcetera.
Then the outcome is not written in stone.
The astrologer makes a judgement call as to which factors will gain the upper hand and shift the balance in one way or the other.
Sometimes it will be a very small detail that makes the difference.
Next the reality proves his judgement right or wrong.
It is in this part that after-the-fact is a lot more easy than before the fact.
The calculation part is the same, but the interpretation is a lot more easy when we know already what was the outcome.
If you don't believe me then you are welcome to post before-the-fact reading about tennis, stock market or whatever you want.
Next I will give my interpretations at the end of the market week or after the match is played.
***
Anyway, the real topic of this thread was about using the Hour in WWG.
So far all your comments have done everything except address KC's question, and I start wondering why.
Why don't you just tell KC that you are not in favor of using Hour, or that you think it is unnecessary, or that you have not experimented with it...
All would be perfectly OK answers..
I guess KC just hopes to use Hour for his stock market work.
We are not in China here. It is allowed to give straight answers to straight questions.
Danny
Reply by Jack Chiu 2 hours ago
Danny,
Why does it have to do with China, I don't get it. Perhaps I should learn a bit more western culture before I join this network. One thing I do learn from my limited international experience with over 30 years of business experience in high tech industry with US is that I don't put words in other's mouth and I respect people even business competitors.
Anyway, one thing I guess you are right is that you have different interprettion of the rules, and what you think it is for calculation. I may not exactly know what you are referring to. I may perhpas choose the wrong English word "rule" as it is from your standpoint referring to something rigid. Well, they are in fact quite rigid in order to maintain repeatability. The rules I am referring to is the interaction between lines and i don't think you will be able to calculate. Without these rules, it would be like a hitch hunch and that's why lots of talented and educated people are getting stuck.
The usage of Hour was not registered in WWG. As time evolves, people are tryinig to figure the meaning of Hour in WWG. I am not a big fan of Hour in WWG, but my research makes me an open-minded person as to whether the usage makes sense or not. I use my way of interpretation and highlight to KC that hour was not used. I didn't comment much on it. It is up to KC to search for the answer. In a subtle way, I am answering KC.
As I pointed out, regardless of whether it is after-the-fact, the decipherinig using the interpretation "rules" will be the same because it is repeatable.
I have offer my due service as a member to offer different opinion, now I will excuse myself from the topic.
Regards,
Jack
Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 23 minutes ago
Danny and Jack,
I can feel the heat. Thank you for answering. I am sure many have benefited from the academic debate if they are interested in wwgua.
Regards,
KC
The reading of the hexagram took less time than reading the posting. Let me post a diagram and see if it benefits the discussion.
The casting is about tennis match, is about two people competing, as in combat. One interesting thing in making prediction of combat in WWG is that you have to figure out which line represents the home team and which line represents the guest team. For example, China team playing in China is obviously the home team, while playing outside of China is then the guest team. However, what if an Englishman wants to predict whether a German or a French is going to win, we will certainly have a hard time to figure out which is which. Trust me, if the quest is not specific enough, it would be quite difficult in doing the deciphering.
I don't know who originally made this casting and what had he in mind regarding the quest at the time. WWG can be very specific if only your quest is specific. I can only assume Hewitt is the home team as he is an Australian playing in his own country. That's make him the Subject Line 世爻, whereas his Opponent wil be the Object Line 應爻. Take note that both the Subject Line and the Object Line are not active, so it would have to see who gets more and better support and who is the strongest.
Mountain-Earth Bo 山地剝 is the 5th Alternate of the Chamber of Qian, Zi 子 the Child of Flying Serpent holds the Subject Line and Si 巳 the Officer of Azure Dragon hold the Object Line. Officer is defined as the one who devitalizes us, so it represents the enemy's troop. Wishfully we do not want to be defeated, so Child who devitalizes the Officer will be our troop.
In this castnig, it just happens that the Subject Line is holding the Child whereas the Object Line is holding the Officer. It indicates that it is an individual match rather than a team match. Zi is in the stage of Death while Si is in the stage of Rest when the seasonal strengths (according to the Month of Chou) has to be taken into consideration. They are both considered weak, however Rest is of better status when comparing to Death.
When reading a hexagram, we channel our attention primarily to those which are active, especially to examine if the Changed Line has any positive or negative effect onto its own Active Line. In this casting, both the Changed Lines, taking the advantage of being vitalized by the Day, are devitalizing their own Active Lines which virtually make the Active Lines become effectiveless, not to mention they are the Neutralized (people refers to void) during the Ten-Day Period of the day of casting.
During the day of Chou 丑, the Initial Line of Wei 未 the Parent becomes Aggressive Inactive, it's certainly posed a threat to the Subject Line. However, fortunately that the Invisible Line of Shen 申 the Sibling is active and turns the devitalization energy from Wei 未 into vitalizing the Subject Line. This would reflect on the spectators' expectation and wishful thinking. Once in a long while that an Australian could win in his own turf.
In the day of matching, it is the day of Jia-Yin 甲寅 and there the tide changed. Yin 寅 and Mao 卯 are no longer neutralized. The Uppermost Line of Yin 寅 the Asset becomes the Day Master, its Changed Line of You 酉 the Sibling can no longer pose any effect onto Yin 寅. Yin is free to pose its effect onto any other Lines especially being the Opposite of the only support of the Subject Line, the Invisible Shen 申. And worst, vitalizing the Object Line of Si 巳 the Officer. On the other hand, the Day Master of Yin 寅 also being the opposite of the Changed Line of Shen 申 in the 3rd Line, the result of which is to free Mao 卯 from being devitalized. Mao 卯 is then vitalizinig the Object Line. It is a clear indication that Safin (the Object Line) will win.
Note that the time of match has not been used.
A completed rule books of WWG was published during the Qing Dynasty, but it was a collective ideas and wisdoms since WWG was first matured during the Song Dynasty. It was written based upon the ancient social structure and protocols. As the world is evolving, we have offer it new meanings. The problem is not that it is an old book, the problem is the one who is using it.
Regards,
Jack
Reply by Anna 17 hours ago
Shifu, no wonder I couldn't explain it last night, I followed what was written in the first post, Safin as subject and Hewitt as object. I was wondering where Safin was from.
Thank you for explaining it so thorough as you always do.
Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 15 hours ago
Jack and Danny,
It seems that different sifus have different opinion. Note that Danny interprets Safin as the subject line whereas Jack says Safin is the object line.
As Jack has put it, if an Englishman wants to predict whether a German or a French is going to win, he will certainly have a hard time to figure out whether German is the subject line or object line.
As Danny has said some people use subject to be the diviner and then object represents the market.
But some also said if you are doing divination for other person, the other person will become object line and the market will become subject line.
Jack, can you address the question of predicting the stock market? Whether it can be used in your opinion?
Jack, You are quite thorough in your interpretation because you also consider the other things like the child of flying serpent and azure dragon. many books actually did not talk about this. You also consider the seasonal strengths. There are so many things to consider making the interpretation of wen wang gua not an easy task.
Jack, I notice many people did not use the time when casting the gua. Do you know the reason?
Jack, I got another question for you. I normally use opening week composite index to add up and divide by 8 and the balance will form the upper gua. Then I would use the closing week composite index(CI) of the stock market to add up and divide by 8 and the balance will form the lower gua. For example, the opening week CI of the Malaysian stock market is 887.40 and Friday closing CI is 890.67. I used Friday(Feb 27, 2009) 5.01 pm as the casting time to form the gua as Fire-water wei ji is the 3rd alternate of the chamber of Li, changed 3rd line to become Fire-Wind, second alternate of the chamber of Li. This is to predict this week's market performance. What is your interpretation for this gua listed as follow? This week will mean Mar 2, Mar 3, Mar 4, Mar 5, Mar 6.
起卦方式：手工指定
公历时间：2009年2月27日17时1分 星期五
农历时间：己丑年二月初三酉时
干支：己丑年 丙寅月 癸卯日 辛酉时 (旬空：辰巳)
神煞：驿马—巳 桃花—子 日禄—子 贵人—卯，巳
离宫：火水未济 离宫：火风鼎
六神 伏 神 【本 卦】 【变 卦】
白虎 ▅▅▅▅▅ 兄弟己巳火 应 ▅▅▅▅▅ 兄弟己巳火
螣蛇 ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙己未土 ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙己未土 应
勾陈 ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财己酉金 ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财己酉金
朱雀官鬼己亥水▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟戊午火 世×→ ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财辛酉金
青龙 ▅▅▅▅▅ 子孙戊辰土 ▅▅▅▅▅ 官鬼辛亥水 世
玄武 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母戊寅木 ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙辛丑土
Danny, would you also care to express your opinion for the above gua?
Reply by Danny VdB 10 hours ago
Hi all,
The decision to use Safin as Subject was already made before the coins were thrown.
Most tennis matches do not have any home player, so that's not a criterion that can be used for all tennis games.
The same is with football world championships, all but one country are playing away from home, so in most matches there is no real home team.
That's why I always use the first name that is listed as the Subject, the second name is the Object.
Since the match was officially listed as Safin-Hewitt it means Safin was Subject.
If the match had been announced as Hewitt-Safin, then Hewitt would have been considered Subject in the reading.
This is an approach that can be consistently used through all games.
There is certain system used in tennis that decides who is listed first or second, I believe it has to do with where the player was in the draw, but we needn't discuss that here.
Anyway, this is how I do it for all tennis and football predictions.
***
After the facts when result is known, then it is always easy to find alternative interpretations and reasons why playerA has won, or why playerB has lost.
We all know that I Ching and WWG is very flexible.
If Hewitt had won the match we would probably find reasons in the reading why he won..
That's always the case.
The job is to read it before the match gets underway. My reading was done and published before the match.
Jack's analysis looks "pulled by the hairs" to me, and I am not sure what point he was trying to make here.
KC had asked if Hour can be used, and I told him we had done some experiments with it. He asked for an example, and I gave him.
Now, Jack seems to be trying to prove that Hour is not needed as his message concludes with "Note that the time of match has not been used."
But, nobody has said that Hour is "needed", of course we can still do readings without using the Hour.
All that was said is Hour "can" be used to get extra details as in this example.
We can read WWG in any way we want, but if we don't consider the Hour then there is no possibility to see that Hewitt will have much better start and Safin will only find the winning ways after the Pig Hour arrives.
One thing I found rather odd:
">In this casting, it just happens that the Subject Line is holding the Child whereas the Object Line is holding the Officer. It indicates that it is an individual match rather than a team match."
I think this makes no sense.
We could get this very same hexagram reading just as well for a football match or other team sport.
I have seen many team sport readings where the teams were given by Child and Officer lines.
About 4% of all readings will have Child and Officer as Subject and Object.
So how on earth does it indicate that it is an individual match rather than team match?
I don't see the logic.
Danny
Reply by Danny VdB 9 hours ago
Hi KC,
>Danny, would you also care to express your opinion for the above gua?
As far as I can see, this way of getting the hexagram by divide by 8 method is a flawed method for stock markets.
It is not difficult to see why.
For example we know that stock markets in the same region have a strong correlation.
If Germany goes down 2%, then you can be pretty sure France and Italy are also down that day.
It is no different in Asia, if Tokyo and Hong Kong are falling, then probably Malaysia stocks will also be down that day.
Some countries have more than one Index. In the US we have Dow Jones, Nasdaq, S&P,...
It is no secret that 90% of the time these indices go up or down together.
But of course each of these indices closes with very different numbers on Friday.
So, if we use your divide by 8 method based on Friday's closing price for each Index, then we will inevitably get different results for all exchanges and indices.
We will get very different results and predictions, depending on which index we used.
This proves the method is false, because we know from history that most world markets move in high correlation.
Danny
PS: It is no need to repeat the no offense topic all the time.
This is an international network and we assume that people who join and participate have the maturity not to feel attacked as soon as somebody disagrees with them.
Everyone has equal space to bring his arguments on the table and that's it.
Reply by Jack Chiu 7 hours ago
People may decipher WWG in their own way, but WWG by itself has its own interpretation rules. This is the reason why it can be repeatable, rather than being randomly picked and used. We can be flexible in the way of interpreting the event as circumstance may different, but it has to be explainable by the rules. Like gravitational force to apple. This is the scientific part of WWG. I guess this is the point I want to make.
Regardless of whether it is after-the-fact, the deciphering will be the same. I have done many deciphering, most of them on the fly, and am persistently using those rules. I have launched a complete interpretation of the rule book, one of my publications in applications of Yi-jing, and was largely received by WWG and Yi-jing lovers. I would have received criticism regarding my interpretation of the rules already, if there is any. I offer my reading to this case as academic study for those who found it meaningful and would accept those who may has different opinion, otherwise i will not be responding at the first place.
Regards,
Jack
Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 5 hours ago
Jack,
I can see you probably are responding to Danny's comments. I hope you would still respond to the question I raised in the discussion.
I would invite other ww gua lovers to join in the discussion, people like Harmen Mesker and Nathalie Mourier.
Regards,
KC
Reply by Danny VdB 4 hours ago
Hi Jack,
>People may decipher WWG in their own way, but WWG by itself has its own interpretation rules.
I guess that's where we differ.
There are rules for calculation, and on that point WWG is pretty clear and rigid.
We both are not doing anything different when we calculate Gua Shen, or the timeliness of the lines, etcetera..
That's also why a computer can do that part of the job, because it is rigid mathematics.
But there are no "rules" for interpretation, at the most there is something like "guidelines" for interpretation.
Guidelines are more flexible than rules.
If there were rigid rules for interpretation, then it would not be interpretation, then it would also be part of calculation.
So, this is where schools and people differ : in their way of interpreting the various factors that are calculated in WWG.
For that the rules are not fixed and rigid.
If they were, then a computer would give us the complete interpretation as well, then an astrologer would not be needed.
The calculation part is easily repeatable, but the interpretation part is not.
That doesn't mean the interpretation is random.
Interpretation consists of judgement calls made by the astrologer, that's where he uses his experience.
Usually in a reading not all fingers are pointing in the same direction.
Some factors may favor the Subject line, some factors give advantage to Object, changing lines come in, etcetera.
Then the outcome is not written in stone.
The astrologer makes a judgement call as to which factors will gain the upper hand and shift the balance in one way or the other.
Sometimes it will be a very small detail that makes the difference.
Next the reality proves his judgement right or wrong.
It is in this part that after-the-fact is a lot more easy than before the fact.
The calculation part is the same, but the interpretation is a lot more easy when we know already what was the outcome.
If you don't believe me then you are welcome to post before-the-fact reading about tennis, stock market or whatever you want.
Next I will give my interpretations at the end of the market week or after the match is played.
***
Anyway, the real topic of this thread was about using the Hour in WWG.
So far all your comments have done everything except address KC's question, and I start wondering why.
Why don't you just tell KC that you are not in favor of using Hour, or that you think it is unnecessary, or that you have not experimented with it...
All would be perfectly OK answers..
I guess KC just hopes to use Hour for his stock market work.
We are not in China here. It is allowed to give straight answers to straight questions.
Danny
Reply by Jack Chiu 2 hours ago
Danny,
Why does it have to do with China, I don't get it. Perhaps I should learn a bit more western culture before I join this network. One thing I do learn from my limited international experience with over 30 years of business experience in high tech industry with US is that I don't put words in other's mouth and I respect people even business competitors.
Anyway, one thing I guess you are right is that you have different interprettion of the rules, and what you think it is for calculation. I may not exactly know what you are referring to. I may perhpas choose the wrong English word "rule" as it is from your standpoint referring to something rigid. Well, they are in fact quite rigid in order to maintain repeatability. The rules I am referring to is the interaction between lines and i don't think you will be able to calculate. Without these rules, it would be like a hitch hunch and that's why lots of talented and educated people are getting stuck.
The usage of Hour was not registered in WWG. As time evolves, people are tryinig to figure the meaning of Hour in WWG. I am not a big fan of Hour in WWG, but my research makes me an open-minded person as to whether the usage makes sense or not. I use my way of interpretation and highlight to KC that hour was not used. I didn't comment much on it. It is up to KC to search for the answer. In a subtle way, I am answering KC.
As I pointed out, regardless of whether it is after-the-fact, the decipherinig using the interpretation "rules" will be the same because it is repeatable.
I have offer my due service as a member to offer different opinion, now I will excuse myself from the topic.
Regards,
Jack
Reply by KC Goh(吳繼宗) 23 minutes ago
Danny and Jack,
I can feel the heat. Thank you for answering. I am sure many have benefited from the academic debate if they are interested in wwgua.
Regards,
KC
Saturday, February 28, 2009
KC Goh's comment on Danny's example--Well done
Danny, I have read thru your wwg explanation and to me it is a good write-up and it is very clear. I don't know whether Jack would want to add anything.
I put up the gua in Chinese just in case some Chinese readers want to check the terms.
The day of divination is ox which will combined with the rat to turn into earth which will also help the subject Safin. Do you agree?
Good work. I hope to see more of these kinds of examples, especially they are on the stock market prediction.
Regards, KC
起卦方式：手工指定
公历时间：2005年1月29日21时20分 星期六
农历时间：甲申年十二月二十亥时
干支：甲申年 丁丑月 癸丑日 癸亥时 (旬空：寅卯)
神煞：驿马—亥 桃花—午 日禄—子 贵人—卯，巳
乾宫：山地剥 兑宫：地山谦
六神 伏神 【本 卦】 【变 卦】
白虎 ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财丙寅木 ○→ ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟癸酉金
螣蛇兄弟壬申金▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙丙子水 世safin ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙癸亥水 世
勾陈 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母丙戌土 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母癸丑土
朱雀 ▅▅ ▅▅ 妻财乙卯木 ×→ ▅▅▅▅▅ 兄弟丙申金
青龙 ▅▅ ▅▅ 官鬼乙巳火应Hewitt ▅▅ ▅▅ 官鬼丙午火 应
玄武 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母乙未土 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母丙辰土
Interpretation used
Jan 30 甲寅日(Day)
甲戌時（Time）
乙亥時 （Time）
Blogger:Danny is from Balkans. The Balkans is the historical name of a geographic region of southeastern Europe. The region takes its name from the Balkan Mountains, which run through the centre of Bulgaria into eastern Serbia. The region has a combined area of 550,000 km2 (212,000 sq mi) and a population of about 55 million people. Danny was born in Belgium and moved to Bulgaria 7 years ago(2002).
I put up the gua in Chinese just in case some Chinese readers want to check the terms.
The day of divination is ox which will combined with the rat to turn into earth which will also help the subject Safin. Do you agree?
Good work. I hope to see more of these kinds of examples, especially they are on the stock market prediction.
Regards, KC
起卦方式：手工指定
公历时间：2005年1月29日21时20分 星期六
农历时间：甲申年十二月二十亥时
干支：甲申年 丁丑月 癸丑日 癸亥时 (旬空：寅卯)
神煞：驿马—亥 桃花—午 日禄—子 贵人—卯，巳
乾宫：山地剥 兑宫：地山谦
六神 伏神 【本 卦】 【变 卦】
白虎 ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财丙寅木 ○→ ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟癸酉金
螣蛇兄弟壬申金▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙丙子水 世safin ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙癸亥水 世
勾陈 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母丙戌土 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母癸丑土
朱雀 ▅▅ ▅▅ 妻财乙卯木 ×→ ▅▅▅▅▅ 兄弟丙申金
青龙 ▅▅ ▅▅ 官鬼乙巳火应Hewitt ▅▅ ▅▅ 官鬼丙午火 应
玄武 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母乙未土 ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母丙辰土
Interpretation used
Jan 30 甲寅日(Day)
甲戌時（Time）
乙亥時 （Time）
Blogger:Danny is from Balkans. The Balkans is the historical name of a geographic region of southeastern Europe. The region takes its name from the Balkan Mountains, which run through the centre of Bulgaria into eastern Serbia. The region has a combined area of 550,000 km2 (212,000 sq mi) and a population of about 55 million people. Danny was born in Belgium and moved to Bulgaria 7 years ago(2002).
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